>Its the old tradeoff between using long-winded existing constructs or paying a complexity cost and forcing the reader to learn a new abstraction or DSL. Yeah,

>Its the old tradeoff between using long-winded existing constructs or paying a complexity cost and forcing the reader to learn a new abstraction or DSL. Yeah, that's definitely true. When macros are used to add to the language, you're acting, by definition, as a language designer. You can make good or bad choices. I normally think it's good to eliminate boilerplate (e.g., the lambda calls in the examples) and to simplify things (passing bare symbols instead of strings). To my eye, the new coder actually has to learn less than if they had to remember to wrap with lambdas, or use strings: you code just like other parts of the language. And that's a win. However, bad choices with macros can definitely be made. Some people consider the loop macro ugly, because it's a hairy ball of special cases with new syntax.