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I understand the spirit of the post, but it's not so black and white. You should think about what you really need to do, and then do it. That might be writing a

I understand the spirit of the post, but it's not so black and white. You should think about what you really need to do, and then do it. That might be writing a little code first, and then focusing on the customers. The reason is that a lot of the time you need to technically validate an idea. You have a great idea for a product but you have no idea if it's even possible. You have to write code to understand what your product is even going to be ("these are the 3 most important features, can we actually do them?") Maybe these are features that depend on an external service and you need to make sure they provide the right info. I feel much more willing to sell an idea when I have a vague idea that it's possible. But yes, only write as little code as possible at first, and expect to throw it all away. It's just part of the research process.

zacharycohn 13y ago
How do you know those are the three most important features until you've talked to a bunch of customers who tell you they are?
- jlongster 13y ago
  How do you know what demographic to engage in until you have a rough sketch of a product? You have to choose something to start with, and starting with a few tech features is absolutely valid.
  - zacharycohn 13y ago
    ... you pick a demographic then go talk to them? Sketch first means you're thinking about a product and hunting for a customer. Customer first means you're thinking about a problem first then building a solution.
    - jlongster 13y ago
      Honestly I think we're just bike-shedding at this point. There are tons of companies that started with a sketch of a product (to solve a known problem) and evolved it based on customer feedback.
kareemm 13y ago
Author of the post here. > The reason is that a lot of the time you need to technically validate an idea. You have a great idea for a product but you have no idea if it's even possible. I agree that things are rarely black and white, but because hackers tend to default to their comfort zone - code - and because (in my experience) technical risk is usually a non-issue, the biggest risks are finding a large enough market, a set of customers willing to pay, and a way to profitable reach them. Since they're usually the biggest risks, it makes sense to tackle them first.
- jlongster 13y ago
  Definitely agree that most technically-focused people fall into the trap of writing too much code too early. There's the other end too, though: you get so wrapped up into an idea and sell it too hard and end up not delivering because you were detached from the technical reality. I think you just need to be smart about switching contexts, especially early on in the game. Using a little bit of code here and there to stay well-grounded, while focusing on customers to validate the idea. Early on you definitely should be spending most of your time engaging future customers.
  - kareemm 13y ago
    > Early on you definitely should be spending most of your time engaging future customers. 100% agree. Though my approach is less about selling and more about learning: are we solving a valuable problem? Are people willing to pay for it? Do we have some ideas about how to scalably reach those folks? Etc
    - jlongster 13y ago
      That's true. I guess because I'm a "hacker" I just don't know how to ask those questions without involving the technical merits of the product. I have a specific question, as I'm in this phase right now. I need to validate my product and demographic. It's a finance app targeted towards developers. I'm still working through the core feature-set (on paper, and a little code). It needs to differentiate itself in the details; the market is somewhat saturated. I also don't see how I can make a landing page without screenshots. Now, how do I validate it without writing any code? I have already written some code because I need to make sure I could get certain info from banks. I need to make a landing page to get people to sign-up. Can I really do that without screenshots (even if it's mock-ups, I need to think about the UI a little)? I need to "sell" it on a few features; writing code has helped a ton to sift through my ideas. How do you flesh out a landing page when you just have an idea? Obviously, I'm still learning about this.

zacharycohn 13y ago

How do you know those are the three most important features until you've talked to a bunch of customers who tell you they are?

jlongster 13y ago
How do you know what demographic to engage in until you have a rough sketch of a product? You have to choose something to start with, and starting with a few tech features is absolutely valid.
- zacharycohn 13y ago
  ... you pick a demographic then go talk to them? Sketch first means you're thinking about a product and hunting for a customer. Customer first means you're thinking about a problem first then building a solution.
  - jlongster 13y ago
    Honestly I think we're just bike-shedding at this point. There are tons of companies that started with a sketch of a product (to solve a known problem) and evolved it based on customer feedback.

kareemm 13y ago

Author of the post here. > The reason is that a lot of the time you need to technically validate an idea. You have a great idea for a product but you have no idea if it's even possible. I agree that things are rarely black and white, but because hackers tend to default to their comfort zone - code - and because (in my experience) technical risk is usually a non-issue, the biggest risks are finding a large enough market, a set of customers willing to pay, and a way to profitable reach them. Since they're usually the biggest risks, it makes sense to tackle them first.

jlongster 13y ago
Definitely agree that most technically-focused people fall into the trap of writing too much code too early. There's the other end too, though: you get so wrapped up into an idea and sell it too hard and end up not delivering because you were detached from the technical reality. I think you just need to be smart about switching contexts, especially early on in the game. Using a little bit of code here and there to stay well-grounded, while focusing on customers to validate the idea. Early on you definitely should be spending most of your time engaging future customers.
- kareemm 13y ago
  > Early on you definitely should be spending most of your time engaging future customers. 100% agree. Though my approach is less about selling and more about learning: are we solving a valuable problem? Are people willing to pay for it? Do we have some ideas about how to scalably reach those folks? Etc
  - jlongster 13y ago
    That's true. I guess because I'm a "hacker" I just don't know how to ask those questions without involving the technical merits of the product. I have a specific question, as I'm in this phase right now. I need to validate my product and demographic. It's a finance app targeted towards developers. I'm still working through the core feature-set (on paper, and a little code). It needs to differentiate itself in the details; the market is somewhat saturated. I also don't see how I can make a landing page without screenshots. Now, how do I validate it without writing any code? I have already written some code because I need to make sure I could get certain info from banks. I need to make a landing page to get people to sign-up. Can I really do that without screenshots (even if it's mock-ups, I need to think about the UI a little)? I need to "sell" it on a few features; writing code has helped a ton to sift through my ideas. How do you flesh out a landing page when you just have an idea? Obviously, I'm still learning about this.