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If you include ethics into your decisions then suddenly you are not able to work for a lot of companies. Google - severe tax evasion, Facebook - collecting your

by CmonDev 13y ago

If you include ethics into your decisions then suddenly you are not able to work for a lot of companies. Google - severe tax evasion, Facebook - collecting your personal info for dodgy reasons etc.

gaius 13y ago
Not to mention the bubble-startup business model, raise a billion from VCs and blow it. That money belongs to pension funds, university endowments, charity trusts...
- pron 13y ago
  It's not a zero-sum game like trading, though. You do try to benefit society and the economy, and even if you don't succeed, people make a living off that "blown" money.
  - mseebach 13y ago
    a) Trading isn't zero-sum. If you meant to say HFT, no, that isn't zero-sum either. b) Trying isn't enough. A billion blown is a billion blown, it doesn't matter what your intentions are - and if it does, I'm sure most HFT-traders are convinced that they are benefiting society and the economy. c) People are also making a living of off money spend in HFT-space, regardless of what their intentions are.
  - CmonDev 13y ago
    The only thing business with shareholders wants is maximizing the profits. Besides, how are you going to IPO your start-up without traders involved? Capitalism without trading sounds like communism without common property.
    - pron 13y ago
      A stock exchange doesn't need traders. We all buy and sell things all the time without the help of traders. Retailers and importers provide, in their domain, a much more valuable service than traders do in theirs. We don't even need traders for traditional risk-reducing options trading for farmers and manufacturers. > The only thing business with shareholders wants is maximizing the profits. In the US, generally yes. In other countries (like Germany), businesses have other goals, like providing sustenance to workers.
      - CmonDev 13y ago
        "like providing sustenance to workers." when enforced by government that is, in some countries you don't even have to pay tax.
        pron 13y ago
        That government is elected by the people. It's not a foreign occupier. So I guess that the people of Germany have chosen to make businesses not just about maximizing profit.
  - gaius 13y ago
    It's not clear to me how society benefits from ever more intrusive ways to show people ads, and "people make a living" in that context is the same as Reagan's so-called "trickle down economics".
pron 13y ago
> If you include ethics into your decisions... By definition (almost), ethics is the systematic study of what one should or should not do. Are you suggesting ignoring the systematic study of what one should or should not do when one has to decide what one should or should not do? > then suddenly you are not able to work for a lot of companies... Well, every person has their own levels of comfort with various practices. Ethics doesn't give you clear-cut answers, it's just a way to think about decisions.

by CmonDev 13y ago

If you include ethics into your decisions then suddenly you are not able to work for a lot of companies. Google - severe tax evasion, Facebook - collecting your personal info for dodgy reasons etc.

gaius 13y ago

Not to mention the bubble-startup business model, raise a billion from VCs and blow it. That money belongs to pension funds, university endowments, charity trusts...

pron 13y ago
It's not a zero-sum game like trading, though. You do try to benefit society and the economy, and even if you don't succeed, people make a living off that "blown" money.
- mseebach 13y ago
  a) Trading isn't zero-sum. If you meant to say HFT, no, that isn't zero-sum either. b) Trying isn't enough. A billion blown is a billion blown, it doesn't matter what your intentions are - and if it does, I'm sure most HFT-traders are convinced that they are benefiting society and the economy. c) People are also making a living of off money spend in HFT-space, regardless of what their intentions are.
- CmonDev 13y ago
  The only thing business with shareholders wants is maximizing the profits. Besides, how are you going to IPO your start-up without traders involved? Capitalism without trading sounds like communism without common property.
  - pron 13y ago
    A stock exchange doesn't need traders. We all buy and sell things all the time without the help of traders. Retailers and importers provide, in their domain, a much more valuable service than traders do in theirs. We don't even need traders for traditional risk-reducing options trading for farmers and manufacturers. > The only thing business with shareholders wants is maximizing the profits. In the US, generally yes. In other countries (like Germany), businesses have other goals, like providing sustenance to workers.
    - CmonDev 13y ago
      "like providing sustenance to workers." when enforced by government that is, in some countries you don't even have to pay tax.
      - pron 13y ago
        That government is elected by the people. It's not a foreign occupier. So I guess that the people of Germany have chosen to make businesses not just about maximizing profit.
- gaius 13y ago
  It's not clear to me how society benefits from ever more intrusive ways to show people ads, and "people make a living" in that context is the same as Reagan's so-called "trickle down economics".

pron 13y ago

> If you include ethics into your decisions... By definition (almost), ethics is the systematic study of what one should or should not do. Are you suggesting ignoring the systematic study of what one should or should not do when one has to decide what one should or should not do? > then suddenly you are not able to work for a lot of companies... Well, every person has their own levels of comfort with various practices. Ethics doesn't give you clear-cut answers, it's just a way to think about decisions.