4 ms·

Why Oracle wants Solaris

7 points by silkodyssey 17y ago

grandalf 17y ago
Some requests for Oracle: - switch to apt for package management. - bundle standard gnu tools, etc. by default and drop the old solaris ones. - release the entire solaris codebase and intellectual property too the open source world. Why would any business want to risk its future on an old, dying operating system for a few percent better performance in niche workloads?
- bensummers 17y ago
  Have you tried OpenSolaris? Open Source for almost everything, GNU tools (which were always in Solaris) in the PATH by default. New apt-like packaging, which integrates with ZFS for trivial rollbacks of back upgrades. Etc etc etc. Of course, it would be nice to have some of this in Solaris 10, but they're trying to keep it nice and compatible. Changing the packaging system would be a bit radical. I run my startup on Solaris 10. While performance on multi-core systems is significantly better than alternatives, it's features like ZFS, Zones and integration with the hardware which really make it a compelling OS. That said, there's a huge pain barrier to getting started, mainly due to the ancient packaging system and lack of pre-built packages. OpenSolaris does improve things greatly, but does need more software ports to make it truly mainstream.
  - moe 17y ago
    I think there's no real demand for (Open)Solaris anymore. ZFS is the only remaining solaris-feature with mass-appeal. For most people that's not enough to justify coping with the pains of maintaining a second platform. The hardware integration is NIL, linux runs pretty much everything now. Zones is called OpenVZ for the rest of us. I know quite a few admins who swear on xfires for the metal. None of them keeps the OS they ship with, though.
    - bensummers 17y ago
      Not wishing to dispute your research... but perhaps you talk to people who use Linux and I talk to people who use Solaris? The reasons I use Solaris are that I'm uncomfortable with the Linux development model of "unplanned latest and greatest" and the BSDs aren't so hot on systems with lots of cores. This basically leaves Solaris. It's definitely an OS worth looking at. Not just for the features (ZFS you mentioned, DTrace you didn't) but for the quality engineering, and support if you ever need it.
      - moe 17y ago
        That's why I said I think... ;-) To each their own ofcourse and yes, I did forget about DTrace which would indeed be another killer feature. But after that it gets a bit dark in the unique features bag, or did I miss something else? There will always be die-hard solaris fans (just like we have them for every OS) but when we're talking about sheer mass adoption then I don't see it entering mainstream again - unless something more significant than OpenSolaris happens.
        bensummers 17y ago
        I count stability and good engineering as a feature. I suppose there's nothing which would necessarily compel anyone to adopt it, but there's a nice sense of integration between everything. Once you've got the hang of Solaris, everything "just works" and fits nicely together. ZFS integrates with zones which integrate with resource caps which integrate with SMF which integrates ... etc. I would be very surprised if OpenSolaris displaced Linux, but I suspect it'll always have a place in the world. The BSDs are still around and healthy, and innovating quite nicely amongst themselves. Linux seems to be a default choice rather than something you choose to use. I also hear some people run Windows on servers, although I can't quite believe it myself.

7 points by silkodyssey 17y ago

Some requests for Oracle: - switch to apt for package management. - bundle standard gnu tools, etc. by default and drop the old solaris ones. - release the entire solaris codebase and intellectual property too the open source world. Why would any business want to risk its future on an old, dying operating system for a few percent better performance in niche workloads?

bensummers 17y ago
Have you tried OpenSolaris? Open Source for almost everything, GNU tools (which were always in Solaris) in the PATH by default. New apt-like packaging, which integrates with ZFS for trivial rollbacks of back upgrades. Etc etc etc. Of course, it would be nice to have some of this in Solaris 10, but they're trying to keep it nice and compatible. Changing the packaging system would be a bit radical. I run my startup on Solaris 10. While performance on multi-core systems is significantly better than alternatives, it's features like ZFS, Zones and integration with the hardware which really make it a compelling OS. That said, there's a huge pain barrier to getting started, mainly due to the ancient packaging system and lack of pre-built packages. OpenSolaris does improve things greatly, but does need more software ports to make it truly mainstream.
- moe 17y ago
  I think there's no real demand for (Open)Solaris anymore. ZFS is the only remaining solaris-feature with mass-appeal. For most people that's not enough to justify coping with the pains of maintaining a second platform. The hardware integration is NIL, linux runs pretty much everything now. Zones is called OpenVZ for the rest of us. I know quite a few admins who swear on xfires for the metal. None of them keeps the OS they ship with, though.
  - bensummers 17y ago
    Not wishing to dispute your research... but perhaps you talk to people who use Linux and I talk to people who use Solaris? The reasons I use Solaris are that I'm uncomfortable with the Linux development model of "unplanned latest and greatest" and the BSDs aren't so hot on systems with lots of cores. This basically leaves Solaris. It's definitely an OS worth looking at. Not just for the features (ZFS you mentioned, DTrace you didn't) but for the quality engineering, and support if you ever need it.
    - moe 17y ago
      That's why I said I think... ;-) To each their own ofcourse and yes, I did forget about DTrace which would indeed be another killer feature. But after that it gets a bit dark in the unique features bag, or did I miss something else? There will always be die-hard solaris fans (just like we have them for every OS) but when we're talking about sheer mass adoption then I don't see it entering mainstream again - unless something more significant than OpenSolaris happens.
      - bensummers 17y ago
        I count stability and good engineering as a feature. I suppose there's nothing which would necessarily compel anyone to adopt it, but there's a nice sense of integration between everything. Once you've got the hang of Solaris, everything "just works" and fits nicely together. ZFS integrates with zones which integrate with resource caps which integrate with SMF which integrates ... etc. I would be very surprised if OpenSolaris displaced Linux, but I suspect it'll always have a place in the world. The BSDs are still around and healthy, and innovating quite nicely amongst themselves. Linux seems to be a default choice rather than something you choose to use. I also hear some people run Windows on servers, although I can't quite believe it myself.