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The European system follows a strictly defined progression, LMD: Licence: 3 years after high school, equivalent to a US BSc. Master: +2 years on top of the pr
by GuiA 13y ago
The European system follows a strictly defined progression, LMD:
Licence: 3 years after high school, equivalent to a US BSc.
Master: +2 years on top of the previous, equivalent to a US MSc.
Doctorate: +3 years on top of the previous, equivalent to a US PhD.
Some PhDs can take a bit more time - it's not uncommon for a student to take an extra 6 months or so (or to start a few months after the official school year starts, because of funding issues). However, I've never heard of someone's PhD taking 4 or 5 years or more (although I'm sure it may happen in some edge cases).
The reason why Licence is 3 years compared to the US's 4 is that it's very focused: often, students don't pick which classes they take until the end of their curriculum (where you can pick classes for a specialty relevant to your discipline; for example, AI or Graphics for CS). There are a few general ed classes (for example macro economics, English as a second language, etc.), but definitely less than the US. Similarly, you don't get too pick. I've seen US students get a BSc. in Computer Science and having taken theater and anthropology classes in their first year; this does not happen in Europe (and you do notice that in the US, some very focused students do get their BSc. in 3 years).
This also means that the average euro student with a licence is typically stronger in her field than the average US student with a BSc.; however, the downside is that you can't change majors halfway or anything. If you do 1.5 years of CS and then realize you want to go do something else, it's pretty much back to square one.
The reason why a PhD is shorter is also due to the fact that it is common for the 2nd year of the Master (M2) to be split in two branches- the standard one, and M2R (for Master 2 Research) for students who know they want to go into research. M2Rs typically include a 6 months internship in a lab, where you start working on topics that will be related to your PhD (you can still go work after an M2R and not do a PhD, but it's uncommon).
Source: I've been through the French, British, and US university systems :)
- jlees 13y agoIn the UK, many of my peers finished somewhere after 3 years but before 5. The writing-up phase tended to drag on, I had a couple of friends who ended up working while writing up as their 3-year funding ran out.
- mtdewcmu 13y agoA US PhD is considered more substantial and held in higher esteem than a European one.
- GuiA 13y agoReally? How so? I was a research assistant in a US lab, and we interacted regularly with European groups of PhD students/post docs/professors, there was never such a feeling. I have friends doing a PhD back home, and they publish at international conferences etc. just like their American peers. Citation needed?
- mtdewcmu 13y agoNote that by PhD I mean the degree itself, not the person holding it -- I'm sure highly talented people do PhDs in Europe. The simple fact that a US PhD is more time consuming would be enough to account for a difference in esteem. Check out arjunnarayan's comments on this same topic on a parallel thread -- he has more to say about it than I do. I'm repeating what I've heard, and IIRC I heard it from CS professors where I went to college -- the same one where Mor Harchol-Balter works.
- GuiA 13y agoThanks for the pointers to the comments. They're interesting to read, just like the replies to them.
- Irishsteve 13y agoBy you and people who must have some form of bias in their view of the world. A PhD is easily judged on the work itself, not who or where it came from. Thats the great thing about research, it can be really transparent.
- mtdewcmu 13y agoI don't mean to propagate bias. I don't really have my own opinion, I was repeating something I heard from insiders in the US PhD process. They no doubt have some home team bias. But how well the PhD helps you get jobs is something that's potentially measurable and testable.