6 ms·

First Bitcoin ATM

63 points by Pro_bity 13y ago

pedalpete 13y ago
Why is this machine always asking for the users fingerprints? Doesn't that break the anonymity of bitcoin?
- lukerohde 13y ago
  Not to mention that that is associated with a government ID and a photo. Why not just use a bank account...?
  - pera 13y ago
    As betterunix said, Bitcoin is not anonymous (http://bitcoin.org/en/you-need-to-know http://bitcoin.org/en/you-need-to-know). It's like BitTorrent: many peers know your IP address and authorities can trace you with some help of your ISP, though you can use Bitcoin through Tor, but then the problem is how you obtain BTCs and how you spend them... anonymity is not trivial :) About your question: I'd many bad experiences with banks (probably I'm not alone), and payment processor (ie PayPal) are problematic too. I like Bitcoin because is in my point of view most secure and easiest way to transfer money, and also the technology behind it is brilliant.
- paulgb 13y ago
  My understanding is that it's to comply with money-laundering laws. They limit the size of the transaction per-day and per-person. I haven't bought bitcoins (online or through an ATM), but it seems any purchase of bitcoins from any electronic money transfer would have the same issue of breaking anonymity. I suppose there are ways to anonymize the funds once you have them.
  - nwh 13y ago
    This is it really. There's a limit to the amount of cash they can do per person per day, and this is a way to ensure people don't go over the limit.
- csomar 13y ago
  I think they are trying to avoid fraud. Since they seem to be limiting to amount you can withdraw, they probably need some way to authenticate you.
- colinloretz 13y ago
  It doesn't seem like the scanner is required for these machines and it does so using palm-vein scanning, not fingerprints. They are doing so to prevent any single user from withdrawing over a legal limit in a day. "If enabled, the Palm Vein Scanner can limit a user's daily transaction amount by taking a unique, anonymous (no fingerprints) infrared picture of a customer's blood vessels to assist in AML compliance."
  - thaumasiotes 13y ago
    It's difficult to argue that information which is specifically used to uniquely identify you is "anonymous".
- betterunix 13y ago
  What anonymity of Bitcoin? Nothing in the design of Bitcoin protects anonymity, nor is it a clearly stated security goal.
typicalrunt 13y ago
While I'm happy to see the world's first anything happen in my hometown of Vancouver, I do question why Vancouver was chosen over San Fran, Portland or New York. Those cities seem more fit for World's First. Even if its a Canadian market they are targeting, Toronto is our financial centre and would make a better choice for this currency.
- querulous 13y ago
  I think it's as simple as their first (operational) customer happens to be based in Vancouver.
  - trevorcreech 13y ago
    Yup, the ATM is being operated by a Vancouver Bitcoin store called http://www.bitcoiniacs.com http://www.bitcoiniacs.com
- yafujifide 13y ago
  Perhaps because San Fran, Portland and New York are in the US, which has more onerous regulations.
- cbhl 13y ago
  "FINTRAC told LibertyBit in an email that it was not considered a Money Service Business, which would require registering with FINTRAC. The agency told LibertyBit that since the transfer of funds is a corollary of its actual service of trading virtual currency, it need not register." tl;dr: Less regulatory burden in Canada. (Source: http://www.pcworld.com/article/2039347/canadian-regulator-takes-lighter-view-of-bitcoin.html http://www.pcworld.com/article/2039347/canadian-regulator-ta...)
deleted 13y ago
[deleted]
dobbsbob 13y ago
I live a block away from this machine and won't be using it because of nonsense biometric data harvesting. Why do I need to scan my ID, picture and fingerprints to trade a small amount of bitcoins? I will continue to use the Russian guy who hangs out at a Robson St cafe and doesn't want my biometric data.
- hristov 13y ago
  Wait, are you saying that there are now street bitcoin traders? This reminds of communist times when the government limited foreign currency trading. There was a specific coffee house where you could go and illicitly trade foreign currency.
  - robflynn 13y ago
    Indeed there are! Here's a short Wired article I saw about the concept a few months back: http://www.wired.com/wiredenterprise/2013/07/buttonwood/ http://www.wired.com/wiredenterprise/2013/07/buttonwood/ One of my clients actually said to me, at the closing of a project: "I don't know if you take bit coins, but I'm gonna go see my bitcoin guy in a few. I don't like to buy online. Anyway, if you want to be paid in bit coins, let me know! Otherwise I'll drop the check in the mail tomorrow." (that's paraphrased a bit, as I cannot remember the exact wording, but the meat of the quote is the same.)
  - ksrm 13y ago
    Of course. see e.g. https://localbitcoins.com https://localbitcoins.com
  - deleted 13y ago
    [deleted]
  - james4k 13y ago
    I can't help but think on how that reflects on current government.
- randywaterhouse 13y ago
  I'll even just go to LocalBitcoins if I want the anonymity (at a premium, but that's a cost of doing business without a fully FINRA-compliant broker, of course LBC is a marketplace so it has no business being compliant). And if I don't want the anonymity premium these guys make it sound like it's difficult to do instant trades... Meanwhile I've got Coinbase on Instant Trade up to 10 BTC per day, and other exchanges have similar options (if you choose to verify with ID/Bank Info/etc).
lucb1e 13y ago
I think this is like the second or third "first" ATM, though.
- gkop 13y ago
  Yup. For example, the Internet Archive in SF launched what they call a bitcoin ATM back in March. [1] [2] [1] http://blog.archive.org/2013/03/05/bitcoin-to-cash-converter-box/ http://blog.archive.org/2013/03/05/bitcoin-to-cash-converter... [2] http://blog.archive.org/2013/04/03/how-the-internet-archive-is-having-great-time-with-bitcoin/ http://blog.archive.org/2013/04/03/how-the-internet-archive-...
  - yodasan 13y ago
    That is pretty awesome, although, I believe "an honor-based converter box" is a far cry from an ATM.
wcummings 13y ago
Error: EMFILE, too many open files '/home/ubuntu/robocoin/robocoin-website/views/index.html' at Object.fs.openSync (fs.js:427:18) at fs.readFileSync (fs.js:284:15) at View.exports.renderFile [as engine] (/home/ubuntu/robocoin/robocoin-website/node_modules/ejs/lib/ejs.js:312:9) at View.render (/home/ubuntu/robocoin/robocoin-website/node_modules/express/lib/view.js:75:8) at Function.app.render (/home/ubuntu/robocoin/robocoin-website/node_modules/express/lib/application.js:504:10) at ServerResponse.res.render (/home/ubuntu/robocoin/robocoin-website/node_modules/express/lib/response.js:753:7) at exports.index (/home/ubuntu/robocoin/robocoin-website/routes/index.js:8:9) at callbacks (/home/ubuntu/robocoin/robocoin-website/node_modules/express/lib/router/index.js:161:37) at param (/home/ubuntu/robocoin/robocoin-website/node_modules/express/lib/router/index.js:135:11) at pss (/home/ubtuntu/robocoin/robocoin-website/node_modules/express/lib/router/index.js:142:5) Idiots.......
- blackysky 13y ago
  readFileSync ... not good not good .... nodejs is sexier async ;)
  - wcummings 13y ago
    node.js is sexier when it doesn't serve stacktraces in production. Plus async files reads still happen in an internal threadpool (one thread per core, hardcoded, IIRC) so it's pretty easy to saturate that anyway, you should be caching static assets.
    - blackysky 13y ago
      you are right but I'll still use async over sync anytime... :)
      - Jare 13y ago
        You will often prefer to use sync for one-time loads or for debugging.
Gregordinary 13y ago
In January or February a group in New Hampshire showed off a Bitcoin ATM for US Dollars, though I don't think it was ready for full scale production. http://news.cnet.com/8301-13578_3-57570925-38/need-bitcoins-this-atm-takes-dollars-and-funds-your-account/ http://news.cnet.com/8301-13578_3-57570925-38/need-bitcoins-... Looks like they've since updated and now have one that accepts notes from over 200 countries: https://lamassu.is/ https://lamassu.is/
whalesalad 13y ago
Just got this error when hitting the site. I guess node isn't the end-all-be-all magic bullet for scalability everyone thinks it is? Error: EMFILE, too many open files '/home/ubuntu/robocoin/robocoin-website/views/index.html' at Object.fs.openSync (fs.js:427:18) at fs.readFileSync (fs.js:284:15) at View.exports.renderFile [as engine] (/home/ubuntu/robocoin/robocoin-website/node_modules/ejs/lib/ejs.js:312:9) at View.render (/home/ubuntu/robocoin/robocoin-website/node_modules/express/lib/view.js:75:8) at Function.app.render (/home/ubuntu/robocoin/robocoin-website/node_modules/express/lib/application.js:504:10) at ServerResponse.res.render (/home/ubuntu/robocoin/robocoin-website/node_modules/express/lib/response.js:753:7) at exports.index (/home/ubuntu/robocoin/robocoin-website/routes/index.js:8:9) at callbacks (/home/ubuntu/robocoin/robocoin-website/node_modules/express/lib/router/index.js:161:37) at param (/home/ubuntu/robocoin/robocoin-website/node_modules/express/lib/router/index.js:135:11) at pass (/home/ubuntu/robocoin/robocoin-website/node_modules/express/lib/router/index.js:142:5)
- crindy 13y ago
  Acting like this site is proof that node doesn't scale is just plain silly.
- est 13y ago
  too many open files, Ubuntu has default /proc/sys/fs/file-max of 1024. It's an SA problem, not dev problem.
  - pkhamre 13y ago
    If SA and dev had a great cooperation from an early point, the developer would have told the SA about the platform requirements.
- Tarang 13y ago
  This error isn't from node rather the OS has a limit on the number of files than can be open at once. The same limit would apply for another language/stack
tux 13y ago
All I see is > The connection was interrupted. Just like real ATM ^_^
ken47 13y ago
As the popularity of bitcoin continues to grow, I think bitcoin owners will appreciate the degree of liquidity this offers. The bitcoin ecosystem needs something like this.
lastres0rt 13y ago
A couple guys at DEF CON this past year brought a coin-operated Bitcoin converter -- US currency goes in, QR codes full of crypto come out. I'm holding onto my souvenir bitcoin (worth $0.25 at time of transaction) as long as I can.

First Bitcoin ATM

63 points by Pro_bity 13y ago

pedalpete 13y ago

Why is this machine always asking for the users fingerprints? Doesn't that break the anonymity of bitcoin?

lukerohde 13y ago
Not to mention that that is associated with a government ID and a photo. Why not just use a bank account...?
- pera 13y ago
  As betterunix said, Bitcoin is not anonymous (http://bitcoin.org/en/you-need-to-know http://bitcoin.org/en/you-need-to-know). It's like BitTorrent: many peers know your IP address and authorities can trace you with some help of your ISP, though you can use Bitcoin through Tor, but then the problem is how you obtain BTCs and how you spend them... anonymity is not trivial :) About your question: I'd many bad experiences with banks (probably I'm not alone), and payment processor (ie PayPal) are problematic too. I like Bitcoin because is in my point of view most secure and easiest way to transfer money, and also the technology behind it is brilliant.
paulgb 13y ago
My understanding is that it's to comply with money-laundering laws. They limit the size of the transaction per-day and per-person. I haven't bought bitcoins (online or through an ATM), but it seems any purchase of bitcoins from any electronic money transfer would have the same issue of breaking anonymity. I suppose there are ways to anonymize the funds once you have them.
- nwh 13y ago
  This is it really. There's a limit to the amount of cash they can do per person per day, and this is a way to ensure people don't go over the limit.
csomar 13y ago
I think they are trying to avoid fraud. Since they seem to be limiting to amount you can withdraw, they probably need some way to authenticate you.
colinloretz 13y ago
It doesn't seem like the scanner is required for these machines and it does so using palm-vein scanning, not fingerprints. They are doing so to prevent any single user from withdrawing over a legal limit in a day. "If enabled, the Palm Vein Scanner can limit a user's daily transaction amount by taking a unique, anonymous (no fingerprints) infrared picture of a customer's blood vessels to assist in AML compliance."
- thaumasiotes 13y ago
  It's difficult to argue that information which is specifically used to uniquely identify you is "anonymous".
betterunix 13y ago
What anonymity of Bitcoin? Nothing in the design of Bitcoin protects anonymity, nor is it a clearly stated security goal.

typicalrunt 13y ago

While I'm happy to see the world's first anything happen in my hometown of Vancouver, I do question why Vancouver was chosen over San Fran, Portland or New York. Those cities seem more fit for World's First. Even if its a Canadian market they are targeting, Toronto is our financial centre and would make a better choice for this currency.

querulous 13y ago
I think it's as simple as their first (operational) customer happens to be based in Vancouver.
- trevorcreech 13y ago
  Yup, the ATM is being operated by a Vancouver Bitcoin store called http://www.bitcoiniacs.com http://www.bitcoiniacs.com
yafujifide 13y ago
Perhaps because San Fran, Portland and New York are in the US, which has more onerous regulations.
cbhl 13y ago
"FINTRAC told LibertyBit in an email that it was not considered a Money Service Business, which would require registering with FINTRAC. The agency told LibertyBit that since the transfer of funds is a corollary of its actual service of trading virtual currency, it need not register." tl;dr: Less regulatory burden in Canada. (Source: http://www.pcworld.com/article/2039347/canadian-regulator-takes-lighter-view-of-bitcoin.html http://www.pcworld.com/article/2039347/canadian-regulator-ta...)

deleted 13y ago

[deleted]

dobbsbob 13y ago

I live a block away from this machine and won't be using it because of nonsense biometric data harvesting. Why do I need to scan my ID, picture and fingerprints to trade a small amount of bitcoins? I will continue to use the Russian guy who hangs out at a Robson St cafe and doesn't want my biometric data.

hristov 13y ago
Wait, are you saying that there are now street bitcoin traders? This reminds of communist times when the government limited foreign currency trading. There was a specific coffee house where you could go and illicitly trade foreign currency.
- robflynn 13y ago
  Indeed there are! Here's a short Wired article I saw about the concept a few months back: http://www.wired.com/wiredenterprise/2013/07/buttonwood/ http://www.wired.com/wiredenterprise/2013/07/buttonwood/ One of my clients actually said to me, at the closing of a project: "I don't know if you take bit coins, but I'm gonna go see my bitcoin guy in a few. I don't like to buy online. Anyway, if you want to be paid in bit coins, let me know! Otherwise I'll drop the check in the mail tomorrow." (that's paraphrased a bit, as I cannot remember the exact wording, but the meat of the quote is the same.)
- ksrm 13y ago
  Of course. see e.g. https://localbitcoins.com https://localbitcoins.com
- deleted 13y ago
  [deleted]
- james4k 13y ago
  I can't help but think on how that reflects on current government.
randywaterhouse 13y ago
I'll even just go to LocalBitcoins if I want the anonymity (at a premium, but that's a cost of doing business without a fully FINRA-compliant broker, of course LBC is a marketplace so it has no business being compliant). And if I don't want the anonymity premium these guys make it sound like it's difficult to do instant trades... Meanwhile I've got Coinbase on Instant Trade up to 10 BTC per day, and other exchanges have similar options (if you choose to verify with ID/Bank Info/etc).

lucb1e 13y ago

I think this is like the second or third "first" ATM, though.

gkop 13y ago
Yup. For example, the Internet Archive in SF launched what they call a bitcoin ATM back in March. [1] [2] [1] http://blog.archive.org/2013/03/05/bitcoin-to-cash-converter-box/ http://blog.archive.org/2013/03/05/bitcoin-to-cash-converter... [2] http://blog.archive.org/2013/04/03/how-the-internet-archive-is-having-great-time-with-bitcoin/ http://blog.archive.org/2013/04/03/how-the-internet-archive-...
- yodasan 13y ago
  That is pretty awesome, although, I believe "an honor-based converter box" is a far cry from an ATM.

wcummings 13y ago

Error: EMFILE, too many open files '/home/ubuntu/robocoin/robocoin-website/views/index.html' at Object.fs.openSync (fs.js:427:18) at fs.readFileSync (fs.js:284:15) at View.exports.renderFile [as engine] (/home/ubuntu/robocoin/robocoin-website/node_modules/ejs/lib/ejs.js:312:9) at View.render (/home/ubuntu/robocoin/robocoin-website/node_modules/express/lib/view.js:75:8) at Function.app.render (/home/ubuntu/robocoin/robocoin-website/node_modules/express/lib/application.js:504:10) at ServerResponse.res.render (/home/ubuntu/robocoin/robocoin-website/node_modules/express/lib/response.js:753:7) at exports.index (/home/ubuntu/robocoin/robocoin-website/routes/index.js:8:9) at callbacks (/home/ubuntu/robocoin/robocoin-website/node_modules/express/lib/router/index.js:161:37) at param (/home/ubuntu/robocoin/robocoin-website/node_modules/express/lib/router/index.js:135:11) at pss (/home/ubtuntu/robocoin/robocoin-website/node_modules/express/lib/router/index.js:142:5) Idiots.......

blackysky 13y ago
readFileSync ... not good not good .... nodejs is sexier async ;)
- wcummings 13y ago
  node.js is sexier when it doesn't serve stacktraces in production. Plus async files reads still happen in an internal threadpool (one thread per core, hardcoded, IIRC) so it's pretty easy to saturate that anyway, you should be caching static assets.
  - blackysky 13y ago
    you are right but I'll still use async over sync anytime... :)
    - Jare 13y ago
      You will often prefer to use sync for one-time loads or for debugging.

Gregordinary 13y ago

In January or February a group in New Hampshire showed off a Bitcoin ATM for US Dollars, though I don't think it was ready for full scale production. http://news.cnet.com/8301-13578_3-57570925-38/need-bitcoins-this-atm-takes-dollars-and-funds-your-account/ http://news.cnet.com/8301-13578_3-57570925-38/need-bitcoins-... Looks like they've since updated and now have one that accepts notes from over 200 countries: https://lamassu.is/ https://lamassu.is/

whalesalad 13y ago

Just got this error when hitting the site. I guess node isn't the end-all-be-all magic bullet for scalability everyone thinks it is? Error: EMFILE, too many open files '/home/ubuntu/robocoin/robocoin-website/views/index.html' at Object.fs.openSync (fs.js:427:18) at fs.readFileSync (fs.js:284:15) at View.exports.renderFile [as engine] (/home/ubuntu/robocoin/robocoin-website/node_modules/ejs/lib/ejs.js:312:9) at View.render (/home/ubuntu/robocoin/robocoin-website/node_modules/express/lib/view.js:75:8) at Function.app.render (/home/ubuntu/robocoin/robocoin-website/node_modules/express/lib/application.js:504:10) at ServerResponse.res.render (/home/ubuntu/robocoin/robocoin-website/node_modules/express/lib/response.js:753:7) at exports.index (/home/ubuntu/robocoin/robocoin-website/routes/index.js:8:9) at callbacks (/home/ubuntu/robocoin/robocoin-website/node_modules/express/lib/router/index.js:161:37) at param (/home/ubuntu/robocoin/robocoin-website/node_modules/express/lib/router/index.js:135:11) at pass (/home/ubuntu/robocoin/robocoin-website/node_modules/express/lib/router/index.js:142:5)

crindy 13y ago
Acting like this site is proof that node doesn't scale is just plain silly.
est 13y ago
too many open files, Ubuntu has default /proc/sys/fs/file-max of 1024. It's an SA problem, not dev problem.
- pkhamre 13y ago
  If SA and dev had a great cooperation from an early point, the developer would have told the SA about the platform requirements.
Tarang 13y ago
This error isn't from node rather the OS has a limit on the number of files than can be open at once. The same limit would apply for another language/stack

tux 13y ago

All I see is > The connection was interrupted. Just like real ATM ^_^

ken47 13y ago

As the popularity of bitcoin continues to grow, I think bitcoin owners will appreciate the degree of liquidity this offers. The bitcoin ecosystem needs something like this.

lastres0rt 13y ago

A couple guys at DEF CON this past year brought a coin-operated Bitcoin converter -- US currency goes in, QR codes full of crypto come out. I'm holding onto my souvenir bitcoin (worth $0.25 at time of transaction) as long as I can.