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Barack Obama 'approved tapping Angela Merkel's phone 3 years ago'
- msandford 13y agoThis probably isn't the change his supporters had hoped for.
- MikeTaylor 13y agoIt so desperately disappointing when a man who was elected largely for his understanding and respect for the constitution turns out to have been systematically dumping over it for the last few years. Like so many people, I expected better of Obama. He's not the man I thought he was.
- msandford 13y agoPoliticians are only true to their "roots" when they're in opposition. Once in power that all quickly goes out the window for "expedience" to "solve" the problems we currently face, and to not let the opposition get in a word edgewise. Pay attention and you'll see that people from both parties do it consistently. Once you recognize that the only reasonable conclusion to come to is that you can't vote republican or democrat since either will betray you once they've gotten your vote and are in office.
- phaus 13y agoAlmost all politicians are carbon copies of one another. Until we vote out every single incumbent, and refuse to replace them with like-minded cronies, we can expect more of the same.
- mudetroit 13y agoFWIW, spying on the leader of a foreign nation is not in anyway dumping on the constitution. Not going to make commentary on other programs, those are a completely different matter, but spying on the leaders of other nations, allies or not, is not illegal nor should it be surprising.
- LanceH 13y agoGetting caught is bad form.
- MysticFear 13y agobut spying on all Americans is dumping on the constitution.. as well as assassinating American citizens without any court order/trial (http://www.nytimes.com/2010/04/07/world/middleeast/07yemen.html http://www.nytimes.com/2010/04/07/world/middleeast/07yemen.h...). EDIT: another source http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-202_162-57585798/who-were-the-4-u.s-citizens-killed-in-drone-strikes/ http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-202_162-57585798/who-were-the-4-...
- Oculus 13y agoI agree. Just like LanceH said, it's bad form to get caught, but in all honesty, this is the NSA's job. To gather forgien intelligence.
- 001sky 13y agowow. just yesterday they tried to pin it on Bush.
- gjm11 13y agoThe article makes, or at least reports, the following claims about the tapping of Merkel's phone: (1) it began in 2002 (when, yes, GWB was in office), (2) Obama was told about it in 2010, and (3) at that time he approved it and allowed it to continue. If all this is true, then it seems to me it's perfectly fair to "pin it on Bush" and to blame Obama for the fact that it continued past 2010. It also seems worth remarking (a) that actual evidence for the claims seems to be in short supply, and (b) that if they're correct it's pretty weird that Obama wasn't told until 2010 that the NSA was tapping the phone of the leader of a major foreign nation allied with the US.
- rhizome 13y agoYes, "they both suck" is a reasonable conclusion.
- acqq 13y agoAnd then one year later Obama, the Nobel prize for peace winner, gave the 'freedom medal' to Merkel praising her: http://www.whitehouse.gov/the-press-office/2011/06/07/remarks-president-obama-and-chancellor-merkel-exchange-toasts http://www.whitehouse.gov/the-press-office/2011/06/07/remark... "Told by the communists that she couldn’t pursue her love of languages, she excelled as a physicist. Asked to spy for the secret police, she refused."
- vaadu 13y agoNixon reborn.
- skj 13y agoI didn't see mention of evidence.
- Bsharp 13y agoThe only good thing about the mess that is Obama's presidency is that people might finally learn that it generally doesn't matter who you elect, most presidents and politicians will act similarly. Politicians tell the country what they think >50% of them want to hear, then do whatever they want in office. While the things Obama and his administration (and Bush's!) have been doing are awful, I've enjoyed watching the public outcry. Hopefully it lasts.
- return0 13y ago> whatever they want in office are you sure it's what they want?
- spangled 13y ago"Der Spiegel reportedly approached authorities with a US document that contained Mrs Merkel's mobile phone number" It's unclear whether that means she was specifically targeted, or whether that actually means the number was tapped or if it was "merely" metadata. If the US were simply hoovering cellular metadata in the Berlin area, as has been the accusation elsewhere, it wouldn't be terribly surprising for her number to turn up. But I don't think that's quite the same thing being implied by the headline(s).
- spoiledtechie 13y agoThis just shows he is willing to lie to get his way. Again can't be trusted. He told Merkel that if he knew, he would have stopped it. That's the smoking gun. Proves he lied. http://weaselzippers.us/2013/10/26/breaking-report-obama-lied-to-angela-merkel-he-personally-ordered-the-bugging-of-her-phone/ http://weaselzippers.us/2013/10/26/breaking-report-obama-lie...
- jonknee 13y agoSo long as both of the anonymously sourced stories are true... We don't know what Obama said and we don't know what Obama approved. For that matter, we don't know what the NSA actually did. It's safe to say that the NSA has been using their "required to fight terrorism" programs for non-terrorism spying, but beyond that everything is murky.
- 001sky 13y agoThe officials spoke on the condition of anonymity because they were not authorized to disclose internal discussions Thats from the NYT article explaining how his AG lied to the SCOTUS until the snowden leaks forced his hand. Seems like a bit of a pattern. Multiple reporters, multiple countries, multiple public figures. The common thread is blatant lying with a straight face? I dunno...
- jonknee 13y agoOr from the WSJ this morning (hardly a defender of the Obama administration): http://online.wsj.com/news/articles/SB10001424052702304470504579162110180138036 http://online.wsj.com/news/articles/SB1000142405270230447050... Obama Unaware as U.S. Spied on World Leaders > The National Security Agency ended a program used to spy on German Chancellor Angela Merkel and a number of other world leaders after an internal Obama administration review started this summer revealed to the White House the existence of the operation, U.S. officials said. ... > The White House cut off some monitoring programs after learning of them, including the one tracking Ms. Merkel and some other world leaders, a senior U.S. official said. Other programs have been slated for termination but haven't been phased out completely yet, officials said. > The account suggests President Barack Obama went nearly five years without knowing his own spies were bugging the phones of world leaders. Officials said the NSA has so many eavesdropping operations under way that it wouldn't have been practical to brief him on all of them.
- cmdkeen 13y agoIt isn't like the world didn't have any interest in German policy 3 years ago. Not when Angela Merkel was deciding whether to continue with bailing out Greece, create massive changes in EU fiscal policy or otherwise use Germany's new found place as the dominant EU player for other ends. Quite why Germany's intelligence services let her use "an old Nokia" is beyond me anyway - it isn't just vulnerable to the NSA spying on her, it's vulnerable to all sorts of people, let alone states, spying on her. All this talk on here of the need for digital security, random people talking of needing to deniably encrypt hard drives and not being able to trust Lavabit and the German authorities couldn't, or didn't try, to persuade their elected leader to use something more than an old phone.
- Xylakant 13y agoThe "old nokia" she used is actually a party (as in political party :) mobile. The reason for owning and using that mobile is simple: Most of the people Angela Merkel communicates with do not own a secure mobile that's encryption capable.
- Kiro 13y agoHow can NSA tap something in Germany?
- PhineasRex 13y agoThat is what Germany wants to know.
- Xylakant 13y agocan as in "is technically and organizationally capable"? Fairly simple, especially when we're talking about the government and mobile phones. The US Embassy is about 200 meters from the Reichstag, just at the edge of the area where most of the government is located, just as the British Embassy. The Brits have a radome on the roof [1] and the Americans are reported to have hidden equipment behind fake walls [2][3]. Sufficiently sensitive equipment should give them a good reception on what most mobiles in that area do. Otherwise see the hack on belgacom: Root the provider and you have the mobile. Not all of that is legal, but I'm not certain under which law the Radome on the embassy is illegal. [1] http://www.bing.com/maps/?v=2&where1=Wilhelmstra%C3%9Fe%2071,%2010117%20Berlin&form=LMLTSN&cp=52.51566162514916~13.380592854080874&lvl=19.456198038832422&sty=b&encType=1#Y3A9c3JrYmdiajNmamIwJmx2bD0xOS40NiZkaXI9MzQwLjQ1JnN0eT1iJnE9V2lsaGVsbXN0cmElMjVDMyUyNTlGZSUyNTIwNzElMjUyQyUyNTIwMTAxMTclMjUyMEJlcmxpbg== http://www.bing.com/maps/?v=2&where1=Wilhelmstra%C3%9Fe%2071... [2] Infrared picture of the American Embassy that claims to be an indicator http://www.spiegel.de/politik/ausland/bild-930301-561363.html http://www.spiegel.de/politik/ausland/bild-930301-561363.htm... [3] http://www.duncancampbell.org/embassy-bugging http://www.duncancampbell.org/embassy-bugging
- r3m6 13y agoMost people expect and accept "007-style" spying for security purposes. But exactly what kind of threat are Germany, France and Brasil to the US? The general suspicion in these countries is that the main motive behind the overzealous NSA activities is state sponsored industrial espionage, which is completely unacceptable.
- r3m6 13y agoIf you want to understand why Merkel - and people from all political leanings - are so upset, just watch "The Lives of Others" - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n3_iLOp6IhM http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n3_iLOp6IhM
- return0 13y agoWow, who could have thought she was a terrorist. Good disguise. You know what would be funny? Tapping the Nobel Peace prize committee.