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Alex3917 said... Do you seriously believe that second hand propylene glycol vapor can pose any medical risk, either short term or long term? Strawman argument

• praxeologist 13y ago
  In 2009, the FDA tested some ecigs from China and found traces of DEG. This was used to raise fear, yet the amount of DEG was within the FDA's own tolerances as "safe". You probably use myriad products from China which aren't highly scrutinized and aren't up in arms about the safety of those. I have an ecig company and the ingredients in my liquid are 100% American sourced. I have never worked for a tobacco company. Ecigs helped me quit smoking and my motivation is to help people quit and improve their lives. There is no reason to be concerned about secondhand vapor. This is a recent study for you to read: http://publichealth.drexel.edu/SiteData/docs/ms08/f90349264250e603/ms08.pdf http://publichealth.drexel.edu/SiteData/docs/ms08/f903492642... We can compare the secondhand exposure from ecigs to something like grilling a steak and grilling clearly has a greater risk to give you cancer.
  • 300bps 13y ago
    I am not surprised at the level of spin coming from someone whose livelihood comes in part from e-cigarettes. You dismiss the FDA study (summarized here http://www.fda.gov/NewsEvents/PublicHealthFocus/ucm173146.htm http://www.fda.gov/NewsEvents/PublicHealthFocus/ucm173146.ht...) by saying it was "ecigs from China". But the study says it was two leading e-cig makers. I have an ecig company and the ingredients in my liquid are 100% American sourced That's kind of like saying, "My product is 100% natural." It might be accurate but ignores the fact that things like arsenic and bacteria and all kind of other harmful things are natural. There is no reason to be concerned about secondhand vapor. I'm going to trust the FDA over you.
    • praxeologist 13y ago
      "Leading ecig makers" are fraudsters in my opinion. They are selling whitelabel Chinese junk at huge margins. They make false claims about their sub-1ml liquid in pre-filled cartridges being equivalent to 2 packs of cigs. They are marketing hacks and aren't actually innovating, unlike my company. The FDA tested the liquid composition of these Chinese cartridges and yes, one was supposedly contaminated. I get my propylene glycol from Dow, not a random Chinese source. Just because one company cut corners and sold a contaminated product shouldn't incriminate those who do assure quality. You're conveniently ignoring that the DEG found is within the FDA's own guidelines as safe anyhow. It sounds scary to tell people that DEG and PG are ingredients in antifreeze and ignore that PG is also in those Mio water shots people use. >That's kind of like saying, "My product is 100% natural." Strawman. I just said I source my ingredients from America and huge, trusted companies like Dow. I said nothing about being 100% natural. By the way, propylene glycol is highly antibacterial and it was considered to pump it into the air of hospitals during the 50's. It is also a common diluent in things like asthma inhalers. Yes, I am dismissing these bullet points from the FDA because they are crafted to evoke fear. Here's another example: "Tobacco-specific impurities suspected of being harmful to humans—anabasine, myosmine, and β-nicotyrine—were detected in a majority of the samples tested." These "are detected" in nicotine patches and gum, actually at a higher level based on intake than ecigs. The amount of these in all cases is so small to not raise any concern. >I'm going to trust the FDA over you. I bet you trust the NSA too. I follow all the research and am capable of having an honest discussion of the facts but clearly you are not. edit: There's a lot about the FDA statement here too - http://casaa.org/uploads/8_Biggest_Electronic_Cigarette_Myths.pdf http://casaa.org/uploads/8_Biggest_Electronic_Cigarette_Myth...
      • 300bps 13y ago
        With all due respect, you are clearly biased. As your Twitter profile states, you are a "Flavorist, tobacco chemist & design junkie. Trying to build an online marketplace for ecig vendors." Your arguments are illogical. You incorrectly use terms like Strawman Argument to respond to a simple illustration. I never said you claimed your products were all natural, just that what you did say is just as meaningless as if you did. You say you only use chemicals from DOW in an attempt to imply they are safe to ingest. But this conveniently ignores the fact that DOW was the primary manufacturer of both Napalm and Agent Orange. Just because they are a large chemical company and their reagents are pure doesn't mean the people using their products are using them correctly. Please don't take the lack of further reply as anything more than it's not worth the time.
• anextio 13y ago
  > Are e-cigarettes regulated by a governmental agency to ensure that they only include listed ingredients? No, but they should be. No one is arguing that quality control isn't important. The problem is that the debate is being marred by FUD that would seek to remove access to these devices for people who need them to quit cigarettes. > you in reality have no idea what ingredients the Chinese manufacturers are putting into their vapors Aside from the gas station disposable ones, most e-liquid purchased in the US is made by small local businesses who want to do right by their customers. I certainly would never buy e-liquid from a non reputable vendor, and certainly not an anonymous company in China.
  • nucleardog 13y ago
    My fluid is mixed up in Ontario, Canada. I still have to trust the manufacturer on where he gets his ingredients, but like you say there are many established businesses which have a reputation for wanting to do right by their customers.
• dionidium 13y ago
  For decades a tobacco industry told us that cigarette smoking and second hand smoking were completely harmless. First of all, the harmful effects of secondhand smoke have been wildly overstated. [0] Beyond that, what gives you the right to put other people's health at risk? This sort of hysterical nonsense has in recent years been engaged with far too much credit. I'm putting your health at risk when I drive a car, when I light a campfire, when I run my lawnmower, and so on and so on. Of course I have a right to put your health at risk in this way because a society in which I couldn't would be a very annoying place to live indeed. [0] https://www.google.com/search?q=secondhand+smoke+overstated https://www.google.com/search?q=secondhand+smoke+overstated