5 ms·

Roughly 4% of our users still use MSIE 6 (some report that they need to due to their restricted work environment). I need a good reason to risk 4% of our revenu

Roughly 4% of our users still use MSIE 6 (some report that they need to due to their restricted work environment). I need a good reason to risk 4% of our revenue for some eyecandy, or a good fallback mechanism (difficult if my layout relies on calc(), for example). HTML/CSS is a sad story ...

shocks 13y ago
What is your target market? MSIE 8 maybe, but 6? Seriously? Who are these people?
- mtam 13y ago
  A number of users out there use pirated Windows XP with IE6, specially in Asia. Check IE6 countdown on www.ie6countdown.com
  - usaphp 13y ago
    If they are using pirated windows xp, i doubt that they will pay for any online service.
    - Ellipsis753 13y ago
      You could be selling physical items. Even pirates buy these.
  - shocks 13y ago
    I can't imagine the extra effort required to support MSIE 6-7 is worth it...
nfriedly 13y ago
"Mobile first" designs help here because you typically do a much simpler layout for mobile and then have your CSS to fancy things up hidden inside of an @media query. Phones and old browsers get the simple verision, modern browsers on large screens get the advanced version. http://js-mini-shell.nfriedly.com/ http://js-mini-shell.nfriedly.com/ is an example of this - IE 8 and down get the simpler layout and no CSS animations.
acjohnson55 13y ago
I feel your pain. At my current gig, we target an IE8 minimum, which still severely limits which of these techniques we can use. Microsoft should be tremendously embarrassed by how bad their browser has been for so long.
- drinchev 13y ago
  At our company we also support IE8. I almost never touch the CSS and HTML files for that. I just load some polyfills that make IE8 more compatible [1][2][3][4]. It seems like magic, because those scripts give me support even for Foundation 4 out of the box ( they dropped legacy IE8 in v.4 ) and I don't have to think that much for websites such as caniuse, etc... The downside is that most of the CSS work is done by javascript and if you are one of those IE8 users you will be unsatisfied with the pageload speed, but given the bad architecture of IE8 you will not be surprised by that fact. Although the pages using those polyfills work pretty good. [1] https://code.google.com/p/html5shiv/ https://code.google.com/p/html5shiv/ [2] http://selectivizr.com/ http://selectivizr.com/ [3] https://github.com/scottjehl/Respond https://github.com/scottjehl/Respond [4] https://code.google.com/p/css3-mediaqueries-js/ https://code.google.com/p/css3-mediaqueries-js/
- camus2 13y ago
  targetting IE8 doesnt mean your site do have to look the same way on IE and modern browsers. Your site or apps must be functional on IE , doesnt mean you cant give modern browsers users a premium experience. Now if you work for a businesses that only allow IE broswers then good luck.
d55 13y ago
you can easily detect a browser's features with http://modernizr.com/ http://modernizr.com/ as a fallback mechanism.
swat535 13y ago
In my opinion you shouldn't punish 96% of your users because of those 4%. As others have mentioned you could use something like modernizer to take advantage of progressive enhancement. That way the users with modern browsers could benefit from newer technologies and the legacy users could still view your site properly. It's more work but I think it is worth the effort.
shmerl 13y ago
IE6, really? Why not Mosaic? Those who use IE6 these days can be ignored. Put a big red banner on the site pointing them to normal browsers if you detect IE6 anywhere.
- laacz 13y ago
  Or ignore them altogether. Mostly they should have been used to web not working properly. Also it's obvious that they do not care or are unable to install better browser. What percentage of those 4% who use IE6 actually buy something? Is it worth supporting them? Or you could create an awesome site to sell your stuff more easily.
  - shmerl 13y ago
    Yes, I can't even imagine who would normally use it, unless it's some weird static environment with ancient Windows installed which can't be upgraded or something the like. And probably in such case people should have alternative computers for normal browsing.
    - prezjordan 13y ago
      Well, they also probably know that most sites won't look perfect in their old browser. Don't bother getting animations to work in IE6, but make sure your site runs okay without them. The latter is doable.
    - SiVal 13y ago
      I had to use IE6 for real about a month ago. It wasn't a test. It was the only way I could figure out to get a relative's personal data off an old, damaged PC they hadn't used for years. I managed to get gmail to work in IE6 and email the important files to myself. There was no way I could have updated the browser on that thing; it was a miracle I could even run the browser it already had. Gmail actually made me click a button stating something like "I can not upgrade this browser" before it would let me in, but it worked. If you have a website that does something useful for its users (and not just making a big, splashy presentation of the wonders of you) I like the idea of having a very stripped down fallback version with nothing but functionality that can be used on browsers with no CSS or Javascript at all. Sometimes even those of us who build websites and spend our days in dev versions of Firefox and Chrome have to use an obsolete browser to get some work done.
hcal 13y ago
I suspect, and of course this is a only my guess, that most of the people locked into IE6 are in work environments that aren't conducive to social browsing or online shopping limiting that 4%'s value. Unless you are targeting a fairly specific type of corporate user/customer you probably want to consider adding some of the new jazzy client side stuff if you think it can improve conversions.
kylec 13y ago
Unless you're making 100% of your money from CPM ads, you should look into whether that 4% of your users really equates to 4% of your revenue.
- windsurfer 13y ago
  At the company I work for, IE users actually bring in higher than average revenue.
  - usaphp 13y ago
    But the important question is which version of IE those people the are using. From my experience they are using at least IE8+.
  - AndyJ1972 13y ago
    I have to say the same :-( Many of the large insurance companies still hit my corporate site with IE6.
special 13y ago
What if a better-looking website convinces the other 96% of your users to spend 4% more (on average) than they otherwise would?
downrightmike 13y ago
Likely the 4% are relying on IE6 because of intranet tech that was written eons ago when IE6 was new. And to upgrade would break that system. You may want to send out some help and let them know the new IE has a compatibility mode and they can set it to 6 and still have a *better browser http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/ie/hh920756(v=vs.85).aspx http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/ie/hh920756(v=vs.85)...
Yaggo 13y ago
Can you risk 96% of your revenue (or whatever is your modern-browser userbase) because your site looks outdated for them?

shocks 13y ago

What is your target market? MSIE 8 maybe, but 6? Seriously? Who are these people?

mtam 13y ago
A number of users out there use pirated Windows XP with IE6, specially in Asia. Check IE6 countdown on www.ie6countdown.com
- usaphp 13y ago
  If they are using pirated windows xp, i doubt that they will pay for any online service.
  - Ellipsis753 13y ago
    You could be selling physical items. Even pirates buy these.
- shocks 13y ago
  I can't imagine the extra effort required to support MSIE 6-7 is worth it...

nfriedly 13y ago

"Mobile first" designs help here because you typically do a much simpler layout for mobile and then have your CSS to fancy things up hidden inside of an @media query. Phones and old browsers get the simple verision, modern browsers on large screens get the advanced version. http://js-mini-shell.nfriedly.com/ http://js-mini-shell.nfriedly.com/ is an example of this - IE 8 and down get the simpler layout and no CSS animations.

acjohnson55 13y ago

I feel your pain. At my current gig, we target an IE8 minimum, which still severely limits which of these techniques we can use. Microsoft should be tremendously embarrassed by how bad their browser has been for so long.

drinchev 13y ago
At our company we also support IE8. I almost never touch the CSS and HTML files for that. I just load some polyfills that make IE8 more compatible [1][2][3][4]. It seems like magic, because those scripts give me support even for Foundation 4 out of the box ( they dropped legacy IE8 in v.4 ) and I don't have to think that much for websites such as caniuse, etc... The downside is that most of the CSS work is done by javascript and if you are one of those IE8 users you will be unsatisfied with the pageload speed, but given the bad architecture of IE8 you will not be surprised by that fact. Although the pages using those polyfills work pretty good. [1] https://code.google.com/p/html5shiv/ https://code.google.com/p/html5shiv/ [2] http://selectivizr.com/ http://selectivizr.com/ [3] https://github.com/scottjehl/Respond https://github.com/scottjehl/Respond [4] https://code.google.com/p/css3-mediaqueries-js/ https://code.google.com/p/css3-mediaqueries-js/
camus2 13y ago
targetting IE8 doesnt mean your site do have to look the same way on IE and modern browsers. Your site or apps must be functional on IE , doesnt mean you cant give modern browsers users a premium experience. Now if you work for a businesses that only allow IE broswers then good luck.

d55 13y ago

you can easily detect a browser's features with http://modernizr.com/ http://modernizr.com/ as a fallback mechanism.

swat535 13y ago

In my opinion you shouldn't punish 96% of your users because of those 4%. As others have mentioned you could use something like modernizer to take advantage of progressive enhancement. That way the users with modern browsers could benefit from newer technologies and the legacy users could still view your site properly. It's more work but I think it is worth the effort.

shmerl 13y ago

IE6, really? Why not Mosaic? Those who use IE6 these days can be ignored. Put a big red banner on the site pointing them to normal browsers if you detect IE6 anywhere.

laacz 13y ago
Or ignore them altogether. Mostly they should have been used to web not working properly. Also it's obvious that they do not care or are unable to install better browser. What percentage of those 4% who use IE6 actually buy something? Is it worth supporting them? Or you could create an awesome site to sell your stuff more easily.
- shmerl 13y ago
  Yes, I can't even imagine who would normally use it, unless it's some weird static environment with ancient Windows installed which can't be upgraded or something the like. And probably in such case people should have alternative computers for normal browsing.
  - prezjordan 13y ago
    Well, they also probably know that most sites won't look perfect in their old browser. Don't bother getting animations to work in IE6, but make sure your site runs okay without them. The latter is doable.
  - SiVal 13y ago
    I had to use IE6 for real about a month ago. It wasn't a test. It was the only way I could figure out to get a relative's personal data off an old, damaged PC they hadn't used for years. I managed to get gmail to work in IE6 and email the important files to myself. There was no way I could have updated the browser on that thing; it was a miracle I could even run the browser it already had. Gmail actually made me click a button stating something like "I can not upgrade this browser" before it would let me in, but it worked. If you have a website that does something useful for its users (and not just making a big, splashy presentation of the wonders of you) I like the idea of having a very stripped down fallback version with nothing but functionality that can be used on browsers with no CSS or Javascript at all. Sometimes even those of us who build websites and spend our days in dev versions of Firefox and Chrome have to use an obsolete browser to get some work done.

hcal 13y ago

I suspect, and of course this is a only my guess, that most of the people locked into IE6 are in work environments that aren't conducive to social browsing or online shopping limiting that 4%'s value. Unless you are targeting a fairly specific type of corporate user/customer you probably want to consider adding some of the new jazzy client side stuff if you think it can improve conversions.

kylec 13y ago

Unless you're making 100% of your money from CPM ads, you should look into whether that 4% of your users really equates to 4% of your revenue.

windsurfer 13y ago
At the company I work for, IE users actually bring in higher than average revenue.
- usaphp 13y ago
  But the important question is which version of IE those people the are using. From my experience they are using at least IE8+.
- AndyJ1972 13y ago
  I have to say the same :-( Many of the large insurance companies still hit my corporate site with IE6.

special 13y ago

What if a better-looking website convinces the other 96% of your users to spend 4% more (on average) than they otherwise would?

downrightmike 13y ago

Likely the 4% are relying on IE6 because of intranet tech that was written eons ago when IE6 was new. And to upgrade would break that system. You may want to send out some help and let them know the new IE has a compatibility mode and they can set it to 6 and still have a *better browser http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/ie/hh920756(v=vs.85).aspx http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/ie/hh920756(v=vs.85)...

Yaggo 13y ago

Can you risk 96% of your revenue (or whatever is your modern-browser userbase) because your site looks outdated for them?