13 ms·

The E-Cigarette Industry, Waiting to Exhale

69 points by sschwartz 13y ago

girvo 13y ago
I used a nicotine spray. I have done for a few months now, it works sublingually. I used it (and patches) to quit smoking, and I'm nearly there, only a few weeks left. What I find interesting though, is that while the spray does indeed get rid of the cravings, it (and the e-cigs I've used) is not the same "feeling" as smoking. This is possibly because of the lack of any MAOIs in the liquid itself. How many of those using e-cigs here are ex-smokers? How many picked it up because it's a socially "acceptable" drug that you can now take without killing yourself slowly? I find it such a fascinating topic!
- galuggus 13y ago
  Have you read the book Allen Carr's easy way to quit smoking? It really works.
  - rahoulb 13y ago
    It sort of worked for me - after reading it I gave up smoking day-to-day - just like that. It was amazing. But I still smoked when I went to the pub and had a drink - I guess it's a deeper link between them. To stop that I went for hypnosis. I still want cigarettes every now and then, but I'm not actually tempted to have one any more.
- deleted 13y ago
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- scotth 13y ago
  I am an e-cig user, and an ex-smoker. There are five of us now in my group of friends. I love the things. It's become a fun hobby for us. We swap flavours, buy hardware to show off, and talk about our experience whenever we're together. Way more fun than smoking ever was. And, take this with a grain of salt (sample size of one), but I feel way better. No more coughing in the mornings, I take hills on my bike like a pro, and I'd swear I look healthier.
  - jimzvz 13y ago
    >And, take this with a grain of salt (sample size of one), but I feel way better. No more coughing in the mornings, I take hills on my bike like a pro, and I'd swear I look healthier. This is the same for me. A huge thing for me is that the tiredness that I feel when I smoke is nonexistent on ecigs.
    - fein 13y ago
      Here's another anecdote for the train! Quit smoking in about 1 month from vaping, and that was 2-3 years ago. It's an awesome hobby, I have great stamina, and I can taste food. For the last year or so I've been riding a bike to work every day, averaging about 6-8 miles.
- bobalob_wtf 13y ago
  I've been using an e-cig for about 3 months now and I've wanted a real cigarette maybe 3 times. The sheer volume of flavours and things to try is keeping me off the cigs. I've dropped my nicotine level down from medium to medium-low and I'm looking to drop again soon. It's the closest thing to smoking without actually smoking and it's the only thing that's worked for me. I've tried cold turkey, patches and gum. None worked for more than a few weeks of constantly thinking about smoking. It's so easy to switch from cigs to e-cigs too.
- Nursie 13y ago
  ex-smoker here. Used ecigs without nicotine to quit. From the moment I tried the e-cig I thought ot tasted and felt better than burning plant matter. I puffed like mad for about three months, then noticed I'd just stopped by accident. Highly recommended IMHO.
300bps 13y ago
I am starting to see people puffing on these stupid e-cigarettes in restaurants that ban cigarette smoking. When you say something to them they invariably try to "educate" you on what an e-cigarette is and how it's different. The problem is that e-cigarettes have not been shown to be safe. From the article: Most public health officials seem to agree that the levels of toxins in e-cigarettes are far lower than those in traditional cigarettes. But they also say that far too little is known, not just about potentially harmful aspects of particular brands of e-cigarettes, but also about whether there is harm from “secondhand vapor.” Dr. Glantz of U.C.S.F. says that in the absence of data, indoor smoking bans should also cover e-cigarettes. The FDA is collecting reports of adverse effects and there are plenty: http://www.fda.gov/downloads/aboutfda/centersoffices/officeofmedicalproductsandtobacco/aboutthecenterfortobaccoproducts/ucm361437.pdf http://www.fda.gov/downloads/aboutfda/centersoffices/officeo... I understand why my mother started smoking when she was 16 and then smoked a pack a day for the next 43 years until she died from cancer. Why in the world are people starting to smoke today with everything we know about it?
- anextio 13y ago
  > I am starting to see people puffing on these stupid e-cigarettes in restaurants that ban cigarette smoking. Most reasonable people in the vaping community discourage that kind of behavior. At the end of the day, there will always be assholes. > The FDA is collecting reports of adverse effects and there are plenty There are four ingredients in e-cigarette juice: propylene glycol, vegetable glycerin, nicotine, and flavoring. Adverse effects generally come from an allergic reaction to PG, which is uncommon but well known. Those who are allergic are advised to use 100% VG mixtures. Aside from that, PG is well known to be safe for human consumption as regulated by the FDA. It is an ingredient in inhalers for asthma and is used in smoke machines. It can cause a humidicant effect on the throat, which leaves it dry, but drinking liquids easily avoids this problem. No one is arguing that e-cigarette companies should not be regulated to make sure that the juice they produce is of a high quality, but arguments to regulate them heavily (or like regular cigarettes) is based mostly on FUD. > Why in the world are people starting to smoke today with everything we know about it? Because humans aren't rational machines and there are many things that cause people to take up habits that aren't healthy. That's not something that's ever going to go away. While long term data on e-cigarettes is not yet available, most experts agree that even in the worst-case scenario, they are nowhere near as bad for you as regular cigarettes. The FUD that exists in the debate can mostly be traced back to groups that have a temperance movement-esque attitude toward nicotine habits. Nicotine is no more addictive or harmful to a person in a normal dose than caffeine, and its effects are similar also. E-cigarettes are helping millions of people to get themselves off the dangers of regular cigarettes. That in itself is a public health miracle. The rates of cessation for cigarettes through traditional methods are frighteningly low, yet with the introduction of e-cigarettes, many people (including myself) will never touch a regular cigarette again after the first day. I have a more advanced device than the ones you pick up at a gas station. It has variable wattage, variable voltage, an ohm-meter, a puff counter, and I can charge my iPhone from it via USB. As well as getting me off tobacco, it's also given me something else to geek out over, and I really enjoy it and the community around it. Access to these devices must be made available widely and without encumbrance to as many people as possible. Regulations that come in should be about quality of product, not discouragement of purchase.
qwerta 13y ago
I do not understand why some people try to regulate this. My guess is that income from smoking-tax is shrinking. I never smoked cigarette in my life, but I tried e-cigs as a replacement for coffee. It works, no hassle with tea or coffee preparation, also it is probably healthier. But being labeled as a smoker puts me off.
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- deskglass 13y ago
  "I tried e-cigs as a replacement for coffee...it is probably healthier." I'll grant that vaporization ameliorates the problems merely caused by smoke inhalation, but doesn't inhaling nicotine cause many health problems on its own? I'll also not aware of there being health issues that result from drinking a normal amount of tea or coffee.
  - gwern 13y ago
    > but doesn't inhaling nicotine cause many health problems on its own? Nicotine on its own causes very little harm. (A word of advice, though, if you decide to read up on this topic: it is extremely common in the research literature to lazily conflate tobacco with nicotine. You will routinely find abstracts which say something like 'we sampled smokers...' and then in the conclusion write '...we conclude that nicotine damages cognitive performance', as if tobacco was nothing but solidified nicotine. When you find something negative about nicotine, you need to check that tobacco is not driving the results.)
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    - qwerta 13y ago
      +1 Also nicotine effects are more isolated to brain. Caffeine affects whole body including metabolism stimulation and hearth rate. Not so good for office worker.
    - 13y ago
cliveowen 13y ago
I can't fathom who thought these things were a good idea. I see people "smoking" these things everywhere: on the bus, on the train, at the effing university during classes! I don't care if it's just steam, I don't want it in my face. I can't believe people don't get this.
- thom 13y ago
  Yeah, I too despise the militant glee people derive from using them everywhere. I also hate the enormous numbers of tacky shops ('MyCiggy'... jeez) appearing to flog them, which seem single-handedly to be propping up the Guild of Bad Typographers.
  - moocowduckquack 13y ago
    Don't piss off the Guild. Their letters are illegible, so you never really know what they are threatening you with until it is too late.
  - enraged_camel 13y ago
    "Militant glee" is such a great description. It's like they look at you in the eye and think, "that's right motherf*, I'm smoking in the building!"
- KC8ZKF 13y ago
  People tap-tap-tapping at their fucking phones gets the same reaction from me. Of course it's irrational for me to feel this way, so I've learned to ignore it.
  - shiftpgdn 13y ago
    I am extraordinarily allergic to the glycol in e-cigs. Just a few seconds of exposure is enough to send me into anaphylaxis. I am pretty sure somebody tapping away on their phone wont kill you.
    - nucleardog 13y ago
rickdale 13y ago
I used to run a custom e-cigarette company. We sold it this summer. My take away was that the federal government eventually will get involved and start regulating the shipping of these items. Unfortunately the stuff people are getting now is mostly made in China and you can't be too certain of what the heck you are getting when you take a big inhale and just taste the apple flavoring or whatever. Who knows what chemicals are used to make them. Most of the testimonials I received was from people that were able to quit smoking because of my product, but I definitely got some complaints as well. The biggest benefit of the e-cig is that is is little to no smell. Definitely hit them on airplanes before with no problems. It is an interesting market though where it seems like new types of e-cigs are coming out all the time. Another thing about e-cigs is that people are making them into e-joints. This is very popular especially in medical marijuana states. Before they banned synthetic marijuana, we were developing a synthetic marijuana e-cig. Would have been fun to have around, but ultimately I am glad not to be filling in mass them any more!
- 300bps 13y ago
  Definitely hit them on airplanes before with no problems. If you were flying on an airline based in the United States, you violated their rules. http://www.businessinsider.com/you-cant-smoke-e-cigarettes-in-planes-2013-2 http://www.businessinsider.com/you-cant-smoke-e-cigarettes-i... Beyond that, what gives you the right to put other people's health at risk? You have either judged them safe or decided you don't care about the risks. You can't make that decision for other people and you're not in a position to know what genetic or other disorders that someone might have that make them more susceptible to any kind of tobacco (ex: http://ghr.nlm.nih.gov/condition/alpha-1-antitrypsin-deficiency http://ghr.nlm.nih.gov/condition/alpha-1-antitrypsin-deficie...). How is this any different from me walking onto a plane with a clump of asbestos fibers and waving it over your head on the plane?
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    - 300bps 13y ago
tluyben2 13y ago
A lot of smokers I know switched to these things. They 'smoke' (is that the proper word with such an e-cig?) far more than they did before. Some of them use them every second they have nothing todo with one of their hands, which basically means they're puffing most of their waking day. I hope for them these things don't turn out to be as bad as/worse than normal cigs...
- hershel 13y ago
  Some e-cigs deliver nicotine more slowly, that might the reason for what you are describing. See "A fresh look at tobacco harm reduction: the case for the electronic cigarette" , reference 76.
- anextio 13y ago
  As someone who switched to an e-cigarette, I might be able to answer this for you. The first thing is that the level and effect of nicotine that is absorbed though vapor is a lot less than a regular cigarette. The reason for this is twofold: firstly, the lungs/mouth/throat seem to simply not pick up as much as in a cigarette, and secondly, cigarette smoke also contains MAOIs, which increase the sensitivity of the brain to nicotine's effects. In addition, users can choose the level of nicotine that they use. Most e-cig users who are regular smokers tend to start at around 18mg/ml. When I first started, I was using this liquid in a 1.6ml tank. One tank worked out to about 1 pack of cigarettes worth of nicotine, and I got through about a tank a day: the same amount that I used to smoke in cigarettes, except spread out through a longer period of time. Most vapers will puff way differently to cigarette users. We take one or two puffs at a time and then wait, while a cigarette user will smoke the whole thing quickly in one go. Nicotine has been shown[1] to increase creativity in the brain, and I know from my own experience that I find it to be great while working. Most of my 'House' moments when tackling difficult coding problems have occurred on the curb with a cigarette in my mouth, and now I lean back at my desk and have a few puffs of fine-tasting menthol e-liquid. [1] http://www.eurekalert.org/pub_releases/2007-08/uoc--bcw081507.php http://www.eurekalert.org/pub_releases/2007-08/uoc--bcw08150...
  - ubercore 13y ago
pvnick 13y ago
E-Cigarettes are going to save millions of lives in the coming years. They're harmless, and, if you get a brand that feels like the real thing, easy to transition to. I hope the tobacco industry takes a huge financial hit from the sale of these things because they literally prevent people from dying. That being said, when I switched to e-cigarettes, it was very easy to switch back to regular cigarettes. That "narrow bridge of familiarity" was easy to cross back over, especially when I ran out of vapor cartridges. Ultimately for me to quit it took stopping cigarettes cold-turkey. Nicotine gum and a transition to regular gum helped a lot. It's been one of the hardest but most rewarding things I've ever done in my life.
- blankenship 13y ago
  But are they harmless? If they’re made with chemicals in an unregulated industrial process, it seems unlikely. Less harmful than ”analog” cigarettes, maybe—but completely harmless seems like an unlikely stretch.
  - praxeologist 13y ago
    Ecig advocates take a harm reduction approach, rather than the quit or die approach of anti-nicotine zealots. All evidence suggests that ecigs are vastly safer than burning tobacco. Here is a recent survey of all available research. We could further extend this by looking at known cancer/cardiovascular risks of the small bits of concern with ecigs then compare to burning tobacco and you are talking about 1% danger comparatively: http://publichealth.drexel.edu/SiteData/docs/ms08/f90349264250e603/ms08.pdf http://publichealth.drexel.edu/SiteData/docs/ms08/f903492642... There is some movement for hte industry to regulate itself and suggest sensible rules, but if ecigs are "deemed" under the 2009 Tobacco act, it will potentially wipe out all innovation because of the rule that any new product be "substantially equivalent" to a product on the market before some arbitrary date in 2007 they set. There's all sorts of horrible rules being proposed which go beyond just making sure the liquid isn't contaminated.
    - Oxxide 13y ago
      thank you for this level-headed response. some of the vitriol around here is toxic.
danpalmer 13y ago
If I smoked, it certainly wouldn't be something I would show off to others readily or be proud of in any way, I'd see it as an embarrassment. Even if these are safer, I still consider them to be anti-social. I'm not a smoker, but I can't see why e-cigarettes should be anything more than a way to help stop smoking.
- tomjen3 13y ago
  Why not? If the are not dangerous to others, what is the big deal? If it is just an image thing, we have an advertising industry quite good at changing those images.
- hackula1 13y ago
  Some of us are in social circles where almost everyone smokes.
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hershel 13y ago
Since people here talk about the difference of e-cigs and cigarettes , i.e. the lack of effects on MAOI, have anybody tried any juice that claims to have that effect on MAOI, for example "aroma ejuice" ? How were the results for you ? And does anybody know about research or regulation of this types of ejuices ? And since those same MAOI affecting compounds(probably beta carbolates) found in tobacco ,are found in brewed coffee, kinds of seasoning, grilled foods and other stuff, have anybody noticed a combination of vaping and some food more effective ?
- praxeologist 13y ago
  Beta-carboline MAOI's were originally hypothesized to be what is important for those who feel something is missing with nicotine-only eliquid. After 3 years of working on this, I can tell you that this is not true. What's important is the other "minor tobacco alkaloids" like anatabine, anabasine, myosimine, etc. Beta-carboline MAOI's, like the minor alkaloids, do have a potentiating effect with nicotine and therefore increase satisfaction or the potential for addiction; however, these MAOI's are pyrosynthesized (created by burning) 20-40x. This means that these MAOI's are not a significant component of a WTA eliquid or non-burned tobacco like the snus many people turn to for the "something missing".
  - gwern 13y ago
    > What's important is the other "minor tobacco alkaloids" like anatabine, anabasine, myosimine, etc. Interesting. Could you provide more info about this?
ams6110 13y ago
Smokers getting annoyed looks at a Stones concert??? My how times have changed. The last time I saw the Stones in concert the entire venue was so filled with cigarette (and I'm sure other) smoke that when the house lights came up at the end of the show the place looked like a Cheech and Chong scene.
bcx 13y ago
It is really interesting to look at this article through the lens of the PR agency/strategy that helped place it for NJOY. 1) Quotes from CEO 2) Little anecdote from Chief Marketing Officer 3) Big vision "Vaping" becomes common place. 4) Key differentiators: "building e-cigarettes that look, feel and perform like the real thing" (this is sprinkled throughout) 5) Celebrity endorsement, Big names: Peter Thiel, Brunno Mars The rest (post first page) is a nice over view of the e-cigarette industry, and some challenges facing NJOY. I wonder how long they were working on a NYT article, of if this was something pretty easy for them to get, given interest around e-cigarettes.
- shadowOfShadow 13y ago
  There's been a fair number of fluff PR and guerilla marketing - even directly at HN readers - around vaping. It's likely organized and funded, etc. blah blah. How far did you have to read through this article to get any voice of someone NOT paid by the company or by the company of the author? The whole e-cig thing is trying to re-build the signalling that real cigarettes have had instead of the self-medicating, addicted idea people have at this point. Rebellion, authenticity, ritual, nostalgia, freedom etc. vs. Addict It must be turned into something you do in front of people to be safely contrarian. Why not just have little capsules that you can get a high dose rush from that essentially is minimally enveloped nicotine? Just enough toying to get it straight to the blood stream?
  - Nursie 13y ago
    Because if it doesn't fulfil the habit accurately (the e-cigs' major strength) then it's useless to get people off the paper ones.
  - logn 13y ago
    > Why not just have little capsules that you can get a high dose rush from that essentially is minimally enveloped nicotine? They have these too. Look for the '4mg nicotine mini lozenge' made by Nicorette and generic by many companies. Unfortunately they're expensive and you need to use 2 or 3 (8-12mg) to really get effect from it. Also, they are slightly irritating to the mouth at times (but much less so than nicotine gum or any tobacco). > The whole e-cig thing is trying to re-build the signalling [...] That's an interesting point. I think you're right on that for the companies like Njoy and Blu, which are imitating the feel of real cigarettes. They're tapping into the smokers' rebellious psyche but interestingly, it's because those smokers are generally too self-conscious to use an e-cig with a giant battery and refillable tank that looks odd. Essentially, smokers feel (perhaps rightly) that smoking is accepted on some level, but people definitely do find it strange seeing someone inhale from a giant piece of metal that many might assume is some kind of hard drug. However, as a result of their design concerns (to look like a real cigarette... or 'analog cig' as many say) they've sacrificed on tech specs and also on price. It's much more cost effective and also an overall better experience to buy an e-cig with a large battery and refillable tanks to hold the liquid. But Blu and others do not offer this. Compare their $7.99 e-cig that is equivalent to 20 cigarettes to the $7.99 10ml bottle of e-liquid for refillable e-cigs which will last at least a week (probably equivalent to 200 cigarettes), and batteries that last upwards of 1-2 days between charges. Some Blue e-cigs aren't re-chargeable and the ones that are run of out charge after a few hours of use. Also, Blu does not deliver the amount of nicotine to the user that a refillable tank + large battery can (which is bad b/c then smokers don't feel satisfied). So, if smokers can find the self-confidence to vape on the most effective device (regardless of its appearance) then they'll save lots of money, get a better nicotine experience, and thus be much less likely to return to smoking.
balbaugh 13y ago
One thing these e-cig companies could try in order to boost their rep is raising public awareness of the importance of recycling batteries. Imagine battery recycling stations at all the places that cell these e-cigs which contain batteries themselves.
argumentum 13y ago
“The very thing that could make them effective is also their greatest danger,” said Dr. Tim McAfee, director of Office on Smoking and Health at the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention. It's exactly this kind of thinking that started and perpetuates the pernicious war on drugs. It's the root of the (proven false) "gateway drug" phenomenon. The "thing" by the way is the fact that they don't do any harm. How absurd and ridiculous ..
rogerthis 13y ago
I really feel like an ET. I'm from a world of cigarrete tv commercials; marlboro mclaren car; my mom, at 73, still smokes, daddy smoked until his last day and his death cause was not related to tobacco; grandfathers too; I studied in a technical high school where the teenagers could freely smoke; in university, there was one teacher that smoked cigars in the classroom...lost world of youth.
dageshi 13y ago
I've always thought that part of what made quitting cigarettes so hard is the social aspect. Laws preventing it force fellow smokers together in designated areas where I guess they smoke and chat. To suddenly quit not only means you're suffering from the physical withdrawl but also the social aspect. e-cigs seem like the only alternative to actual cigarettes which mean you don't lose that social aspect since you can hang out with other smokers while you vape, should you wish.
stevewillows 13y ago
I recently switched from smoking half a pack a day to vaping about 95%. I still smoke here and there, but the craving is covered. I had one of those smokes that looks like a cigarette, but it was garbage. The e-liquid with a KangerTech EVOD is the way to go. Outside of the health benefits or whatever, the smell is one of the best reasons to switch. It's a good career move.
SimpleXYZ 13y ago
Here is my guess: 2/3 of cancer is from smoke, 1/3 is from nicotine. E-cigs are 66% safer/better than analog cigs.

69 points by sschwartz 13y ago

girvo 13y ago

I used a nicotine spray. I have done for a few months now, it works sublingually. I used it (and patches) to quit smoking, and I'm nearly there, only a few weeks left. What I find interesting though, is that while the spray does indeed get rid of the cravings, it (and the e-cigs I've used) is not the same "feeling" as smoking. This is possibly because of the lack of any MAOIs in the liquid itself. How many of those using e-cigs here are ex-smokers? How many picked it up because it's a socially "acceptable" drug that you can now take without killing yourself slowly? I find it such a fascinating topic!

galuggus 13y ago
Have you read the book Allen Carr's easy way to quit smoking? It really works.
- rahoulb 13y ago
  It sort of worked for me - after reading it I gave up smoking day-to-day - just like that. It was amazing. But I still smoked when I went to the pub and had a drink - I guess it's a deeper link between them. To stop that I went for hypnosis. I still want cigarettes every now and then, but I'm not actually tempted to have one any more.
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scotth 13y ago
I am an e-cig user, and an ex-smoker. There are five of us now in my group of friends. I love the things. It's become a fun hobby for us. We swap flavours, buy hardware to show off, and talk about our experience whenever we're together. Way more fun than smoking ever was. And, take this with a grain of salt (sample size of one), but I feel way better. No more coughing in the mornings, I take hills on my bike like a pro, and I'd swear I look healthier.
- jimzvz 13y ago
  >And, take this with a grain of salt (sample size of one), but I feel way better. No more coughing in the mornings, I take hills on my bike like a pro, and I'd swear I look healthier. This is the same for me. A huge thing for me is that the tiredness that I feel when I smoke is nonexistent on ecigs.
  - fein 13y ago
    Here's another anecdote for the train! Quit smoking in about 1 month from vaping, and that was 2-3 years ago. It's an awesome hobby, I have great stamina, and I can taste food. For the last year or so I've been riding a bike to work every day, averaging about 6-8 miles.
bobalob_wtf 13y ago
I've been using an e-cig for about 3 months now and I've wanted a real cigarette maybe 3 times. The sheer volume of flavours and things to try is keeping me off the cigs. I've dropped my nicotine level down from medium to medium-low and I'm looking to drop again soon. It's the closest thing to smoking without actually smoking and it's the only thing that's worked for me. I've tried cold turkey, patches and gum. None worked for more than a few weeks of constantly thinking about smoking. It's so easy to switch from cigs to e-cigs too.
Nursie 13y ago
ex-smoker here. Used ecigs without nicotine to quit. From the moment I tried the e-cig I thought ot tasted and felt better than burning plant matter. I puffed like mad for about three months, then noticed I'd just stopped by accident. Highly recommended IMHO.

300bps 13y ago

I am starting to see people puffing on these stupid e-cigarettes in restaurants that ban cigarette smoking. When you say something to them they invariably try to "educate" you on what an e-cigarette is and how it's different. The problem is that e-cigarettes have not been shown to be safe. From the article: Most public health officials seem to agree that the levels of toxins in e-cigarettes are far lower than those in traditional cigarettes. But they also say that far too little is known, not just about potentially harmful aspects of particular brands of e-cigarettes, but also about whether there is harm from “secondhand vapor.” Dr. Glantz of U.C.S.F. says that in the absence of data, indoor smoking bans should also cover e-cigarettes. The FDA is collecting reports of adverse effects and there are plenty: http://www.fda.gov/downloads/aboutfda/centersoffices/officeofmedicalproductsandtobacco/aboutthecenterfortobaccoproducts/ucm361437.pdf http://www.fda.gov/downloads/aboutfda/centersoffices/officeo... I understand why my mother started smoking when she was 16 and then smoked a pack a day for the next 43 years until she died from cancer. Why in the world are people starting to smoke today with everything we know about it?

anextio 13y ago
> I am starting to see people puffing on these stupid e-cigarettes in restaurants that ban cigarette smoking. Most reasonable people in the vaping community discourage that kind of behavior. At the end of the day, there will always be assholes. > The FDA is collecting reports of adverse effects and there are plenty There are four ingredients in e-cigarette juice: propylene glycol, vegetable glycerin, nicotine, and flavoring. Adverse effects generally come from an allergic reaction to PG, which is uncommon but well known. Those who are allergic are advised to use 100% VG mixtures. Aside from that, PG is well known to be safe for human consumption as regulated by the FDA. It is an ingredient in inhalers for asthma and is used in smoke machines. It can cause a humidicant effect on the throat, which leaves it dry, but drinking liquids easily avoids this problem. No one is arguing that e-cigarette companies should not be regulated to make sure that the juice they produce is of a high quality, but arguments to regulate them heavily (or like regular cigarettes) is based mostly on FUD. > Why in the world are people starting to smoke today with everything we know about it? Because humans aren't rational machines and there are many things that cause people to take up habits that aren't healthy. That's not something that's ever going to go away. While long term data on e-cigarettes is not yet available, most experts agree that even in the worst-case scenario, they are nowhere near as bad for you as regular cigarettes. The FUD that exists in the debate can mostly be traced back to groups that have a temperance movement-esque attitude toward nicotine habits. Nicotine is no more addictive or harmful to a person in a normal dose than caffeine, and its effects are similar also. E-cigarettes are helping millions of people to get themselves off the dangers of regular cigarettes. That in itself is a public health miracle. The rates of cessation for cigarettes through traditional methods are frighteningly low, yet with the introduction of e-cigarettes, many people (including myself) will never touch a regular cigarette again after the first day. I have a more advanced device than the ones you pick up at a gas station. It has variable wattage, variable voltage, an ohm-meter, a puff counter, and I can charge my iPhone from it via USB. As well as getting me off tobacco, it's also given me something else to geek out over, and I really enjoy it and the community around it. Access to these devices must be made available widely and without encumbrance to as many people as possible. Regulations that come in should be about quality of product, not discouragement of purchase.

qwerta 13y ago

I do not understand why some people try to regulate this. My guess is that income from smoking-tax is shrinking. I never smoked cigarette in my life, but I tried e-cigs as a replacement for coffee. It works, no hassle with tea or coffee preparation, also it is probably healthier. But being labeled as a smoker puts me off.

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deskglass 13y ago
"I tried e-cigs as a replacement for coffee...it is probably healthier." I'll grant that vaporization ameliorates the problems merely caused by smoke inhalation, but doesn't inhaling nicotine cause many health problems on its own? I'll also not aware of there being health issues that result from drinking a normal amount of tea or coffee.
- gwern 13y ago
  > but doesn't inhaling nicotine cause many health problems on its own? Nicotine on its own causes very little harm. (A word of advice, though, if you decide to read up on this topic: it is extremely common in the research literature to lazily conflate tobacco with nicotine. You will routinely find abstracts which say something like 'we sampled smokers...' and then in the conclusion write '...we conclude that nicotine damages cognitive performance', as if tobacco was nothing but solidified nicotine. When you find something negative about nicotine, you need to check that tobacco is not driving the results.)
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  - qwerta 13y ago
    +1 Also nicotine effects are more isolated to brain. Caffeine affects whole body including metabolism stimulation and hearth rate. Not so good for office worker.
  - 13y ago

cliveowen 13y ago

I can't fathom who thought these things were a good idea. I see people "smoking" these things everywhere: on the bus, on the train, at the effing university during classes! I don't care if it's just steam, I don't want it in my face. I can't believe people don't get this.

thom 13y ago
Yeah, I too despise the militant glee people derive from using them everywhere. I also hate the enormous numbers of tacky shops ('MyCiggy'... jeez) appearing to flog them, which seem single-handedly to be propping up the Guild of Bad Typographers.
- moocowduckquack 13y ago
  Don't piss off the Guild. Their letters are illegible, so you never really know what they are threatening you with until it is too late.
- enraged_camel 13y ago
  "Militant glee" is such a great description. It's like they look at you in the eye and think, "that's right motherf*, I'm smoking in the building!"
KC8ZKF 13y ago
People tap-tap-tapping at their fucking phones gets the same reaction from me. Of course it's irrational for me to feel this way, so I've learned to ignore it.
- shiftpgdn 13y ago
  I am extraordinarily allergic to the glycol in e-cigs. Just a few seconds of exposure is enough to send me into anaphylaxis. I am pretty sure somebody tapping away on their phone wont kill you.
  - nucleardog 13y ago

rickdale 13y ago

I used to run a custom e-cigarette company. We sold it this summer. My take away was that the federal government eventually will get involved and start regulating the shipping of these items. Unfortunately the stuff people are getting now is mostly made in China and you can't be too certain of what the heck you are getting when you take a big inhale and just taste the apple flavoring or whatever. Who knows what chemicals are used to make them. Most of the testimonials I received was from people that were able to quit smoking because of my product, but I definitely got some complaints as well. The biggest benefit of the e-cig is that is is little to no smell. Definitely hit them on airplanes before with no problems. It is an interesting market though where it seems like new types of e-cigs are coming out all the time. Another thing about e-cigs is that people are making them into e-joints. This is very popular especially in medical marijuana states. Before they banned synthetic marijuana, we were developing a synthetic marijuana e-cig. Would have been fun to have around, but ultimately I am glad not to be filling in mass them any more!

300bps 13y ago
Definitely hit them on airplanes before with no problems. If you were flying on an airline based in the United States, you violated their rules. http://www.businessinsider.com/you-cant-smoke-e-cigarettes-in-planes-2013-2 http://www.businessinsider.com/you-cant-smoke-e-cigarettes-i... Beyond that, what gives you the right to put other people's health at risk? You have either judged them safe or decided you don't care about the risks. You can't make that decision for other people and you're not in a position to know what genetic or other disorders that someone might have that make them more susceptible to any kind of tobacco (ex: http://ghr.nlm.nih.gov/condition/alpha-1-antitrypsin-deficiency http://ghr.nlm.nih.gov/condition/alpha-1-antitrypsin-deficie...). How is this any different from me walking onto a plane with a clump of asbestos fibers and waving it over your head on the plane?
- deleted 13y ago
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  - 300bps 13y ago

tluyben2 13y ago

A lot of smokers I know switched to these things. They 'smoke' (is that the proper word with such an e-cig?) far more than they did before. Some of them use them every second they have nothing todo with one of their hands, which basically means they're puffing most of their waking day. I hope for them these things don't turn out to be as bad as/worse than normal cigs...

hershel 13y ago
Some e-cigs deliver nicotine more slowly, that might the reason for what you are describing. See "A fresh look at tobacco harm reduction: the case for the electronic cigarette" , reference 76.
anextio 13y ago
As someone who switched to an e-cigarette, I might be able to answer this for you. The first thing is that the level and effect of nicotine that is absorbed though vapor is a lot less than a regular cigarette. The reason for this is twofold: firstly, the lungs/mouth/throat seem to simply not pick up as much as in a cigarette, and secondly, cigarette smoke also contains MAOIs, which increase the sensitivity of the brain to nicotine's effects. In addition, users can choose the level of nicotine that they use. Most e-cig users who are regular smokers tend to start at around 18mg/ml. When I first started, I was using this liquid in a 1.6ml tank. One tank worked out to about 1 pack of cigarettes worth of nicotine, and I got through about a tank a day: the same amount that I used to smoke in cigarettes, except spread out through a longer period of time. Most vapers will puff way differently to cigarette users. We take one or two puffs at a time and then wait, while a cigarette user will smoke the whole thing quickly in one go. Nicotine has been shown[1] to increase creativity in the brain, and I know from my own experience that I find it to be great while working. Most of my 'House' moments when tackling difficult coding problems have occurred on the curb with a cigarette in my mouth, and now I lean back at my desk and have a few puffs of fine-tasting menthol e-liquid. [1] http://www.eurekalert.org/pub_releases/2007-08/uoc--bcw081507.php http://www.eurekalert.org/pub_releases/2007-08/uoc--bcw08150...
- ubercore 13y ago

pvnick 13y ago

E-Cigarettes are going to save millions of lives in the coming years. They're harmless, and, if you get a brand that feels like the real thing, easy to transition to. I hope the tobacco industry takes a huge financial hit from the sale of these things because they literally prevent people from dying. That being said, when I switched to e-cigarettes, it was very easy to switch back to regular cigarettes. That "narrow bridge of familiarity" was easy to cross back over, especially when I ran out of vapor cartridges. Ultimately for me to quit it took stopping cigarettes cold-turkey. Nicotine gum and a transition to regular gum helped a lot. It's been one of the hardest but most rewarding things I've ever done in my life.

blankenship 13y ago
But are they harmless? If they’re made with chemicals in an unregulated industrial process, it seems unlikely. Less harmful than ”analog” cigarettes, maybe—but completely harmless seems like an unlikely stretch.
- praxeologist 13y ago
  Ecig advocates take a harm reduction approach, rather than the quit or die approach of anti-nicotine zealots. All evidence suggests that ecigs are vastly safer than burning tobacco. Here is a recent survey of all available research. We could further extend this by looking at known cancer/cardiovascular risks of the small bits of concern with ecigs then compare to burning tobacco and you are talking about 1% danger comparatively: http://publichealth.drexel.edu/SiteData/docs/ms08/f90349264250e603/ms08.pdf http://publichealth.drexel.edu/SiteData/docs/ms08/f903492642... There is some movement for hte industry to regulate itself and suggest sensible rules, but if ecigs are "deemed" under the 2009 Tobacco act, it will potentially wipe out all innovation because of the rule that any new product be "substantially equivalent" to a product on the market before some arbitrary date in 2007 they set. There's all sorts of horrible rules being proposed which go beyond just making sure the liquid isn't contaminated.
  - Oxxide 13y ago
    thank you for this level-headed response. some of the vitriol around here is toxic.

danpalmer 13y ago

If I smoked, it certainly wouldn't be something I would show off to others readily or be proud of in any way, I'd see it as an embarrassment. Even if these are safer, I still consider them to be anti-social. I'm not a smoker, but I can't see why e-cigarettes should be anything more than a way to help stop smoking.

tomjen3 13y ago
Why not? If the are not dangerous to others, what is the big deal? If it is just an image thing, we have an advertising industry quite good at changing those images.
hackula1 13y ago
Some of us are in social circles where almost everyone smokes.

deleted 13y ago

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hershel 13y ago

Since people here talk about the difference of e-cigs and cigarettes , i.e. the lack of effects on MAOI, have anybody tried any juice that claims to have that effect on MAOI, for example "aroma ejuice" ? How were the results for you ? And does anybody know about research or regulation of this types of ejuices ? And since those same MAOI affecting compounds(probably beta carbolates) found in tobacco ,are found in brewed coffee, kinds of seasoning, grilled foods and other stuff, have anybody noticed a combination of vaping and some food more effective ?

praxeologist 13y ago
Beta-carboline MAOI's were originally hypothesized to be what is important for those who feel something is missing with nicotine-only eliquid. After 3 years of working on this, I can tell you that this is not true. What's important is the other "minor tobacco alkaloids" like anatabine, anabasine, myosimine, etc. Beta-carboline MAOI's, like the minor alkaloids, do have a potentiating effect with nicotine and therefore increase satisfaction or the potential for addiction; however, these MAOI's are pyrosynthesized (created by burning) 20-40x. This means that these MAOI's are not a significant component of a WTA eliquid or non-burned tobacco like the snus many people turn to for the "something missing".
- gwern 13y ago
  > What's important is the other "minor tobacco alkaloids" like anatabine, anabasine, myosimine, etc. Interesting. Could you provide more info about this?

ams6110 13y ago

Smokers getting annoyed looks at a Stones concert??? My how times have changed. The last time I saw the Stones in concert the entire venue was so filled with cigarette (and I'm sure other) smoke that when the house lights came up at the end of the show the place looked like a Cheech and Chong scene.

bcx 13y ago

It is really interesting to look at this article through the lens of the PR agency/strategy that helped place it for NJOY. 1) Quotes from CEO 2) Little anecdote from Chief Marketing Officer 3) Big vision "Vaping" becomes common place. 4) Key differentiators: "building e-cigarettes that look, feel and perform like the real thing" (this is sprinkled throughout) 5) Celebrity endorsement, Big names: Peter Thiel, Brunno Mars The rest (post first page) is a nice over view of the e-cigarette industry, and some challenges facing NJOY. I wonder how long they were working on a NYT article, of if this was something pretty easy for them to get, given interest around e-cigarettes.

shadowOfShadow 13y ago
There's been a fair number of fluff PR and guerilla marketing - even directly at HN readers - around vaping. It's likely organized and funded, etc. blah blah. How far did you have to read through this article to get any voice of someone NOT paid by the company or by the company of the author? The whole e-cig thing is trying to re-build the signalling that real cigarettes have had instead of the self-medicating, addicted idea people have at this point. Rebellion, authenticity, ritual, nostalgia, freedom etc. vs. Addict It must be turned into something you do in front of people to be safely contrarian. Why not just have little capsules that you can get a high dose rush from that essentially is minimally enveloped nicotine? Just enough toying to get it straight to the blood stream?
- Nursie 13y ago
  Because if it doesn't fulfil the habit accurately (the e-cigs' major strength) then it's useless to get people off the paper ones.
- logn 13y ago
  > Why not just have little capsules that you can get a high dose rush from that essentially is minimally enveloped nicotine? They have these too. Look for the '4mg nicotine mini lozenge' made by Nicorette and generic by many companies. Unfortunately they're expensive and you need to use 2 or 3 (8-12mg) to really get effect from it. Also, they are slightly irritating to the mouth at times (but much less so than nicotine gum or any tobacco). > The whole e-cig thing is trying to re-build the signalling [...] That's an interesting point. I think you're right on that for the companies like Njoy and Blu, which are imitating the feel of real cigarettes. They're tapping into the smokers' rebellious psyche but interestingly, it's because those smokers are generally too self-conscious to use an e-cig with a giant battery and refillable tank that looks odd. Essentially, smokers feel (perhaps rightly) that smoking is accepted on some level, but people definitely do find it strange seeing someone inhale from a giant piece of metal that many might assume is some kind of hard drug. However, as a result of their design concerns (to look like a real cigarette... or 'analog cig' as many say) they've sacrificed on tech specs and also on price. It's much more cost effective and also an overall better experience to buy an e-cig with a large battery and refillable tanks to hold the liquid. But Blu and others do not offer this. Compare their $7.99 e-cig that is equivalent to 20 cigarettes to the $7.99 10ml bottle of e-liquid for refillable e-cigs which will last at least a week (probably equivalent to 200 cigarettes), and batteries that last upwards of 1-2 days between charges. Some Blue e-cigs aren't re-chargeable and the ones that are run of out charge after a few hours of use. Also, Blu does not deliver the amount of nicotine to the user that a refillable tank + large battery can (which is bad b/c then smokers don't feel satisfied). So, if smokers can find the self-confidence to vape on the most effective device (regardless of its appearance) then they'll save lots of money, get a better nicotine experience, and thus be much less likely to return to smoking.

balbaugh 13y ago

One thing these e-cig companies could try in order to boost their rep is raising public awareness of the importance of recycling batteries. Imagine battery recycling stations at all the places that cell these e-cigs which contain batteries themselves.

argumentum 13y ago

“The very thing that could make them effective is also their greatest danger,” said Dr. Tim McAfee, director of Office on Smoking and Health at the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention. It's exactly this kind of thinking that started and perpetuates the pernicious war on drugs. It's the root of the (proven false) "gateway drug" phenomenon. The "thing" by the way is the fact that they don't do any harm. How absurd and ridiculous ..

rogerthis 13y ago

I really feel like an ET. I'm from a world of cigarrete tv commercials; marlboro mclaren car; my mom, at 73, still smokes, daddy smoked until his last day and his death cause was not related to tobacco; grandfathers too; I studied in a technical high school where the teenagers could freely smoke; in university, there was one teacher that smoked cigars in the classroom...lost world of youth.

dageshi 13y ago

I've always thought that part of what made quitting cigarettes so hard is the social aspect. Laws preventing it force fellow smokers together in designated areas where I guess they smoke and chat. To suddenly quit not only means you're suffering from the physical withdrawl but also the social aspect. e-cigs seem like the only alternative to actual cigarettes which mean you don't lose that social aspect since you can hang out with other smokers while you vape, should you wish.

stevewillows 13y ago

I recently switched from smoking half a pack a day to vaping about 95%. I still smoke here and there, but the craving is covered. I had one of those smokes that looks like a cigarette, but it was garbage. The e-liquid with a KangerTech EVOD is the way to go. Outside of the health benefits or whatever, the smell is one of the best reasons to switch. It's a good career move.

SimpleXYZ 13y ago

Here is my guess: 2/3 of cancer is from smoke, 1/3 is from nicotine. E-cigs are 66% safer/better than analog cigs.