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>Finding and installing that missing wifi driver That "missing" wifi driver is not there because it's proprietary. It doesn't make sense to blame a free operat

>Finding and installing that missing wifi driver That "missing" wifi driver is not there because it's proprietary. It doesn't make sense to blame a free operating system for faulty hardware. In any case, I know that in Ubuntu, the user is informed of nonfree drivers being available and it's trivial to install the drivers from that point.

ezequiel-garzon 13y ago
But doesn't Ubuntu give you the option of installing third-party software? Why doesn't this take care of such issues?
- girvo 13y ago
  It does, at least for hardware I've installed that requires a proprietary driver -- on first boot, it pops the screen asking to install it. That's my experience anyway.
eropple 13y ago
> It doesn't make sense to blame a free operating system for faulty hardware. This mindset is toxic because it does not adequately think about the end user. I mean--drivers? What's a driver? Why do I, a user, care that it's difficult for Ubuntu to do something that Windows does? It doesn't work, that's all I care about.
- Mikeb85 13y ago
  > Why do I, a user, care that it's difficult for Ubuntu to do something that Windows does? It's not Ubuntu that can't do it. It's the hardware manufacturer that refuses to do it. I personally choose to vote with my feet. I only buy computer hardware/software that works with Linux. If someone refuses to support Linux, they don't get my business. If everyone does this, eventually everyone will support Linux or go out of business. There isn't anything that Linux can't technically do. It's simply a matter of who is willing to support Linux.
  - eropple 13y ago
    > It's not Ubuntu that can't do it. It's the hardware manufacturer that refuses to do it. Thanks for the explanation, but I've written (very simple) Linux device drivers before, I am aware. :) But my point was that you are making a distinction that simply does not matter to the end users that are under discussion. That a hardware manufacturer doesn't produce drivers for Linux doesn't change that, to a user, "Windows can do this and Linux can't." It's great that you buy stuff that works with Linux. Linux's problem for normal people is that it doesn't work with everything. Windows does work with everything that a normal person is likely to run into and OS X comes pretty close to the same.
    - Mikeb85 13y ago
      I think the average user understands better than you give them credit, since OSX, iOS, Android, and Windows RT/Phone have fragmented the device OS market... The computing scene is no longer a MS monopoly, but is fragmented between a bunch of incompatible OSes. Nowadays that means you buy peripherals that adhere to standards, or that don't. It's in the manufacturers' interests to create products based on standards, which of course will work with Linux... When my wife sees that her iPhone is a pain to connect to the computer, to her car, can't mirror to our TV, etc..., yet her Android tablet does perfectly, she doesn't blame the computer, car and TV...
bulatb 13y ago
The user doesn't care whose fault it is. If the WiFi doesn't work in Linux, but it worked fine under Windows, then Linux is worse.

ezequiel-garzon 13y ago

But doesn't Ubuntu give you the option of installing third-party software? Why doesn't this take care of such issues?

girvo 13y ago
It does, at least for hardware I've installed that requires a proprietary driver -- on first boot, it pops the screen asking to install it. That's my experience anyway.

eropple 13y ago

> It doesn't make sense to blame a free operating system for faulty hardware. This mindset is toxic because it does not adequately think about the end user. I mean--drivers? What's a driver? Why do I, a user, care that it's difficult for Ubuntu to do something that Windows does? It doesn't work, that's all I care about.

Mikeb85 13y ago
> Why do I, a user, care that it's difficult for Ubuntu to do something that Windows does? It's not Ubuntu that can't do it. It's the hardware manufacturer that refuses to do it. I personally choose to vote with my feet. I only buy computer hardware/software that works with Linux. If someone refuses to support Linux, they don't get my business. If everyone does this, eventually everyone will support Linux or go out of business. There isn't anything that Linux can't technically do. It's simply a matter of who is willing to support Linux.
- eropple 13y ago
  > It's not Ubuntu that can't do it. It's the hardware manufacturer that refuses to do it. Thanks for the explanation, but I've written (very simple) Linux device drivers before, I am aware. :) But my point was that you are making a distinction that simply does not matter to the end users that are under discussion. That a hardware manufacturer doesn't produce drivers for Linux doesn't change that, to a user, "Windows can do this and Linux can't." It's great that you buy stuff that works with Linux. Linux's problem for normal people is that it doesn't work with everything. Windows does work with everything that a normal person is likely to run into and OS X comes pretty close to the same.
  - Mikeb85 13y ago
    I think the average user understands better than you give them credit, since OSX, iOS, Android, and Windows RT/Phone have fragmented the device OS market... The computing scene is no longer a MS monopoly, but is fragmented between a bunch of incompatible OSes. Nowadays that means you buy peripherals that adhere to standards, or that don't. It's in the manufacturers' interests to create products based on standards, which of course will work with Linux... When my wife sees that her iPhone is a pain to connect to the computer, to her car, can't mirror to our TV, etc..., yet her Android tablet does perfectly, she doesn't blame the computer, car and TV...

bulatb 13y ago

The user doesn't care whose fault it is. If the WiFi doesn't work in Linux, but it worked fine under Windows, then Linux is worse.