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The same experience here. My parents also use Ubuntu now (firefox, Libre office). The main issue with Linux is, some one needs to install and setup everything

by nmridul 13y ago

The same experience here. My parents also use Ubuntu now (firefox, Libre office). The main issue with Linux is, some one needs to install and setup everything for them. Finding and installing that missing wifi driver is not something that they can do. Windows installation is breeze, just pop-in the disk and it will install everything for you. Hope pre-installed ubuntu systems get common.

itsboring 13y ago
Very true, if there are driver problems then it becomes a big ordeal. However, we must consider that most Windows installations are set up by an OEM, and in my case, it was already set up by me. In those situations, what matters most is the usability of the system after it's already set up. I doubt my parents would be able to install a fresh copy of either OS without my help.
- jrs99 13y ago
  My parents had no problems. They went on google, typed in the exact error messages, and found step by step instructions for basically every problem they had without really understanding what they were doing.
asveikau 13y ago
> Windows installation is breeze, just pop-in the disk and it will install everything for you. Actually, in the majority of cases your OEM or your IT department does this. It's not uncommon to have missing drivers when doing a clean install from the stock image on the retail DVD. (Disclaimer: I have some history with this as I used to work in the team that created Windows Setup.)
- lespea 13y ago
  That was true back in the xp days but I haven't had to manually hunt down drivers in years. Although I still manually install my graphics drivers since the ones you get through windows update aren't near as current.
  - asveikau 13y ago
    Depends a lot on your hardware. I've had the most problems with network drivers. With 7.
  - yuhong 13y ago
    I think that is also partly because XP lasted a very long time.
  - stormbrew 13y ago
    It's definitely still true. Every windows install from a non-OEM copy in the last few years has required me to sneakernet my network drivers before I could do anything (including get other drivers). Linux has actually been much better for this since the release cycles are shorter and the barrier to getting a driver officially included seems lower (requires WHQL certification on windows, which presumably is not only work but costs money). It's actually been quite a while since I've had to do the driver hunt for Linux, but it's been routine with windows (unless you use the default oem install, obviously).
    - asveikau 13y ago
      I guess one thing Windows does well is pulling drivers from Windows Update. So if your network card is supported there is a good chance you'll get things working. Unfortunately not every network card you can throw at it will work out of the box.
      - ekimekim 13y ago
        Pretty much every time I install windows (only for the games) the first step is to boot into linux, download a windows driver for my network card, then boot into windows to install it so I can start downloading other drivers.
DSMan195276 13y ago
Honestly, I've had better luck installing Ubuntu or Mint then I ever have with Windows. Assuming that a Linux driver exists, the only case I've ever seen a driver not get used automatically is with proprietary drivers. Even then, it's usually just one more click on a GUI that tells you which ones were not used. For Windows, at best everything is working except for graphics. Even then though, the drivers are usually not the same one's the OEM used, and you have to go Googling to find the correct stuff and current versions. I don't disagree with you though, installing an OS is not something a normal user should be doing, even if the install dead easy. But as far as installing goes, I've always found Ubuntu and similar Linux's to be miles ahead of Windows at this point when considering ease of install and usability after install.
- itsboring 13y ago
  At the very least, you don't have to fucking activate it. I hate Microsoft activation with a passion.
- marcloney 13y ago
  I recently bought a new laptop and dual boot Windows 8 and Ubuntu 13.04. It took me 3 hours to get all the drivers working in Windows whilst the only issue I had with Ubuntu was the fact my video card drivers (ofcourse, Nvidia) were going to be proprietary.
- jabits 13y ago
  I honestly cannot relate to this at all. I have not had Windows drivers issues in years, up to and including Windows 8.1.
  - _random_ 13y ago
    Neither did I. It just works.
davexunit 13y ago
>Finding and installing that missing wifi driver That "missing" wifi driver is not there because it's proprietary. It doesn't make sense to blame a free operating system for faulty hardware. In any case, I know that in Ubuntu, the user is informed of nonfree drivers being available and it's trivial to install the drivers from that point.
- ezequiel-garzon 13y ago
  But doesn't Ubuntu give you the option of installing third-party software? Why doesn't this take care of such issues?
  - girvo 13y ago
    It does, at least for hardware I've installed that requires a proprietary driver -- on first boot, it pops the screen asking to install it. That's my experience anyway.
- eropple 13y ago
  > It doesn't make sense to blame a free operating system for faulty hardware. This mindset is toxic because it does not adequately think about the end user. I mean--drivers? What's a driver? Why do I, a user, care that it's difficult for Ubuntu to do something that Windows does? It doesn't work, that's all I care about.
  - Mikeb85 13y ago
    > Why do I, a user, care that it's difficult for Ubuntu to do something that Windows does? It's not Ubuntu that can't do it. It's the hardware manufacturer that refuses to do it. I personally choose to vote with my feet. I only buy computer hardware/software that works with Linux. If someone refuses to support Linux, they don't get my business. If everyone does this, eventually everyone will support Linux or go out of business. There isn't anything that Linux can't technically do. It's simply a matter of who is willing to support Linux.
    - 13y ago
shmerl 13y ago
> Windows installation is breeze You can have exactly the same problems with drivers. Especially on laptops which came with one type of Windows, while you are trying to installer some newer one. Most non technical people can't install Windows themselves anyway. So installation has zero advantage against Linux, especially these days when Linux installation is easy. The main advantage of Windows is like before - it comes preinstalled in the vast majority of cases.
xradionut 13y ago
"Windows installation is breeze, just pop-in the disk and it will install everything for you." LOL! I recent had to reinstall Windows 7 on a machine that was shipped with it. The manufacturers recovery disk didn't have the drivers for system. It took a couple of hours jumping through hoops to get the system up, then a couple of more hours to wait for Windows Update. I had Linux Mint installed in less than one third the time the time with some minor issues with the wireless configuration.

by nmridul 13y ago

itsboring 13y ago

Very true, if there are driver problems then it becomes a big ordeal. However, we must consider that most Windows installations are set up by an OEM, and in my case, it was already set up by me. In those situations, what matters most is the usability of the system after it's already set up. I doubt my parents would be able to install a fresh copy of either OS without my help.

jrs99 13y ago
My parents had no problems. They went on google, typed in the exact error messages, and found step by step instructions for basically every problem they had without really understanding what they were doing.

asveikau 13y ago

> Windows installation is breeze, just pop-in the disk and it will install everything for you. Actually, in the majority of cases your OEM or your IT department does this. It's not uncommon to have missing drivers when doing a clean install from the stock image on the retail DVD. (Disclaimer: I have some history with this as I used to work in the team that created Windows Setup.)

lespea 13y ago
That was true back in the xp days but I haven't had to manually hunt down drivers in years. Although I still manually install my graphics drivers since the ones you get through windows update aren't near as current.
- asveikau 13y ago
  Depends a lot on your hardware. I've had the most problems with network drivers. With 7.
- yuhong 13y ago
  I think that is also partly because XP lasted a very long time.
- stormbrew 13y ago
  It's definitely still true. Every windows install from a non-OEM copy in the last few years has required me to sneakernet my network drivers before I could do anything (including get other drivers). Linux has actually been much better for this since the release cycles are shorter and the barrier to getting a driver officially included seems lower (requires WHQL certification on windows, which presumably is not only work but costs money). It's actually been quite a while since I've had to do the driver hunt for Linux, but it's been routine with windows (unless you use the default oem install, obviously).
  - asveikau 13y ago
    I guess one thing Windows does well is pulling drivers from Windows Update. So if your network card is supported there is a good chance you'll get things working. Unfortunately not every network card you can throw at it will work out of the box.
    - ekimekim 13y ago
      Pretty much every time I install windows (only for the games) the first step is to boot into linux, download a windows driver for my network card, then boot into windows to install it so I can start downloading other drivers.

DSMan195276 13y ago

Honestly, I've had better luck installing Ubuntu or Mint then I ever have with Windows. Assuming that a Linux driver exists, the only case I've ever seen a driver not get used automatically is with proprietary drivers. Even then, it's usually just one more click on a GUI that tells you which ones were not used. For Windows, at best everything is working except for graphics. Even then though, the drivers are usually not the same one's the OEM used, and you have to go Googling to find the correct stuff and current versions. I don't disagree with you though, installing an OS is not something a normal user should be doing, even if the install dead easy. But as far as installing goes, I've always found Ubuntu and similar Linux's to be miles ahead of Windows at this point when considering ease of install and usability after install.

itsboring 13y ago
At the very least, you don't have to fucking activate it. I hate Microsoft activation with a passion.
marcloney 13y ago
I recently bought a new laptop and dual boot Windows 8 and Ubuntu 13.04. It took me 3 hours to get all the drivers working in Windows whilst the only issue I had with Ubuntu was the fact my video card drivers (ofcourse, Nvidia) were going to be proprietary.
jabits 13y ago
I honestly cannot relate to this at all. I have not had Windows drivers issues in years, up to and including Windows 8.1.
- _random_ 13y ago
  Neither did I. It just works.

davexunit 13y ago

>Finding and installing that missing wifi driver That "missing" wifi driver is not there because it's proprietary. It doesn't make sense to blame a free operating system for faulty hardware. In any case, I know that in Ubuntu, the user is informed of nonfree drivers being available and it's trivial to install the drivers from that point.

ezequiel-garzon 13y ago
But doesn't Ubuntu give you the option of installing third-party software? Why doesn't this take care of such issues?
- girvo 13y ago
  It does, at least for hardware I've installed that requires a proprietary driver -- on first boot, it pops the screen asking to install it. That's my experience anyway.
eropple 13y ago
> It doesn't make sense to blame a free operating system for faulty hardware. This mindset is toxic because it does not adequately think about the end user. I mean--drivers? What's a driver? Why do I, a user, care that it's difficult for Ubuntu to do something that Windows does? It doesn't work, that's all I care about.
- Mikeb85 13y ago
  > Why do I, a user, care that it's difficult for Ubuntu to do something that Windows does? It's not Ubuntu that can't do it. It's the hardware manufacturer that refuses to do it. I personally choose to vote with my feet. I only buy computer hardware/software that works with Linux. If someone refuses to support Linux, they don't get my business. If everyone does this, eventually everyone will support Linux or go out of business. There isn't anything that Linux can't technically do. It's simply a matter of who is willing to support Linux.
  - 13y ago

shmerl 13y ago

> Windows installation is breeze You can have exactly the same problems with drivers. Especially on laptops which came with one type of Windows, while you are trying to installer some newer one. Most non technical people can't install Windows themselves anyway. So installation has zero advantage against Linux, especially these days when Linux installation is easy. The main advantage of Windows is like before - it comes preinstalled in the vast majority of cases.

xradionut 13y ago

"Windows installation is breeze, just pop-in the disk and it will install everything for you." LOL! I recent had to reinstall Windows 7 on a machine that was shipped with it. The manufacturers recovery disk didn't have the drivers for system. It took a couple of hours jumping through hoops to get the system up, then a couple of more hours to wait for Windows Update. I had Linux Mint installed in less than one third the time the time with some minor issues with the wireless configuration.