7 ms·

> Mrs Merkel - an Americophile who was awarded the US Presidential Medal of Freedom in 2011 - is said to be shocked that Washington may have engaged in the sort

> Mrs Merkel - an Americophile who was awarded the US Presidential Medal of Freedom in 2011 - is said to be shocked that Washington may have engaged in the sort of spying she had to endure growing up in Communist East Germany. though she expressed no such outrage when it was revealed that the NSA was conducting similar surveillance on German citizens.

rhizome 13y ago
I have a suspicion that the "world leaders bin tapped" storyline is intended to set the stage for a "hey we're all in this together" kumbaya agreement where the leaders substitute their judgement for ours and allow the surveillance to continue.
growupkids 13y ago
Or when the Chinese were caught doing the same thing.
- Volpe 13y ago
  Which incident was that?
  - growupkids 13y ago
    Incidents. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chinese_intelligence_activity_abroad#Germany http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chinese_intelligence_activity_a...
    - Volpe 13y ago
      Sorry there seems to only have been one directed at the Chancellory [1] Would you really equate unconfirmed word document files (which were denied by the government) with explicit phone tapping (which was all but admitted to by the government)? [1] http://www.spiegel.de/international/world/espionage-report-merkel-s-china-visit-marred-by-hacking-allegations-a-502169.html http://www.spiegel.de/international/world/espionage-report-m...
- fosap 13y ago
  I don't know what you are referring to. But for a americanophile who sees the USA as the leader of the free world and protector of human rights that a way more shocking than if a known police state does it. Et tu, Brute?
  - lostlogin 13y ago
    People see America as a protector of human rights? Really? Do these people read anything?
    - grey-area 13y ago
      People see America as a protector of human rights? Really? Many Americans and the American media certainly do.
maak 13y ago
Ugh, so let's stifle the media on the subject? The fact that the leader of a powerful nation is making any sort of protest should be lauded by the tech community.
- darklajid 13y ago
  See elsewhere in this thread: No. It would've been 'laudable' (really? Isn't the word we're going for 'expected' instead?) if she'd have reacted in any decent way after we learned about the general targeting of Germany and German citizens. At THAT point she was supposed to shout/complain/make a fuss. Thing is - she really didn't. NOW, after learning that she, herself, was a target for some time, the situation changed. Which is crap, disgusting and just showing how detached that person is from (the tech community's) reality. There's no reason to clap here.
  - coldarchon 13y ago
    She did speak out for German citizens, get your facts right. You are just repeating what others have told you, start thinking.
camus2 13y ago
What people need to understand is america is not spying just for political reasons or "national security". NSA is also basically a spying agency for hire , used by US private corporations to win contracts (weapons,it,....) or predict the foreign competitor next move (just like the CIA served private interests in Latin America, just google United Fruits and Guatemala... ).
- RWeaver 13y ago
  Source?
  - zzleeper 13y ago
    EG: http://www.economist.com/node/1842124 http://www.economist.com/node/1842124 "...According to a European Parliament report, published in 2001, America's National Security Agency (NSA) intercepted faxes and phone calls between Airbus, Saudi Arabian Airlines and the Saudi government in early 1994..." Not saying that Airbus was the good guy btw. Also, if they help one firm why not another, and so on?
    - NoPiece 13y ago
      The article doesn't support the claim that the NSA is for hire, or even the Boeing knew what was going on. You can only take from it that the NSA may act in US corporate interests.
  - ce4 13y ago
    http://www.theguardian.com/world/2013/sep/09/nsa-spying-brazil-oil-petrobras http://www.theguardian.com/world/2013/sep/09/nsa-spying-braz... "The US National Security Agency has been accused of spying on Brazil's biggest oil company, Petrobras, [...]" EDIT: added summary
Volpe 13y ago
I thought the german government immediately asked for the US government to "clarify" it's intelligence gathering in germany. That's about as 'outraged' as they can get isn't it? Personal phone calls make sense, when the spying is personal.
- darklajid 13y ago
  Nope, the German government actually considered that case closed - "no rights were violated" is an approximation of the statement they issued. NOW this eloquent girl representing my home country changes her attitude and there's a big 'HOW COULD THEY' going around. Before that? Not so much. So she's now (ignoring the gazillion other reasons) fueling gags about her finally realizing that she's part of 'the German people'. Sarcastic publications claim (in jest, of course) that Merkel is 'outraged to be treated like a common German'. Bottom line: Crappy government, they didn't care a damn before and needed to be directly targeted to wake up.

rhizome 13y ago

I have a suspicion that the "world leaders bin tapped" storyline is intended to set the stage for a "hey we're all in this together" kumbaya agreement where the leaders substitute their judgement for ours and allow the surveillance to continue.

growupkids 13y ago

Or when the Chinese were caught doing the same thing.

Volpe 13y ago
Which incident was that?
- growupkids 13y ago
  Incidents. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chinese_intelligence_activity_abroad#Germany http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chinese_intelligence_activity_a...
  - Volpe 13y ago
    Sorry there seems to only have been one directed at the Chancellory [1] Would you really equate unconfirmed word document files (which were denied by the government) with explicit phone tapping (which was all but admitted to by the government)? [1] http://www.spiegel.de/international/world/espionage-report-merkel-s-china-visit-marred-by-hacking-allegations-a-502169.html http://www.spiegel.de/international/world/espionage-report-m...
fosap 13y ago
I don't know what you are referring to. But for a americanophile who sees the USA as the leader of the free world and protector of human rights that a way more shocking than if a known police state does it. Et tu, Brute?
- lostlogin 13y ago
  People see America as a protector of human rights? Really? Do these people read anything?
  - grey-area 13y ago
    People see America as a protector of human rights? Really? Many Americans and the American media certainly do.

maak 13y ago

Ugh, so let's stifle the media on the subject? The fact that the leader of a powerful nation is making any sort of protest should be lauded by the tech community.

darklajid 13y ago
See elsewhere in this thread: No. It would've been 'laudable' (really? Isn't the word we're going for 'expected' instead?) if she'd have reacted in any decent way after we learned about the general targeting of Germany and German citizens. At THAT point she was supposed to shout/complain/make a fuss. Thing is - she really didn't. NOW, after learning that she, herself, was a target for some time, the situation changed. Which is crap, disgusting and just showing how detached that person is from (the tech community's) reality. There's no reason to clap here.
- coldarchon 13y ago
  She did speak out for German citizens, get your facts right. You are just repeating what others have told you, start thinking.

camus2 13y ago

What people need to understand is america is not spying just for political reasons or "national security". NSA is also basically a spying agency for hire , used by US private corporations to win contracts (weapons,it,....) or predict the foreign competitor next move (just like the CIA served private interests in Latin America, just google United Fruits and Guatemala... ).

RWeaver 13y ago
Source?
- zzleeper 13y ago
  EG: http://www.economist.com/node/1842124 http://www.economist.com/node/1842124 "...According to a European Parliament report, published in 2001, America's National Security Agency (NSA) intercepted faxes and phone calls between Airbus, Saudi Arabian Airlines and the Saudi government in early 1994..." Not saying that Airbus was the good guy btw. Also, if they help one firm why not another, and so on?
  - NoPiece 13y ago
    The article doesn't support the claim that the NSA is for hire, or even the Boeing knew what was going on. You can only take from it that the NSA may act in US corporate interests.
- ce4 13y ago
  http://www.theguardian.com/world/2013/sep/09/nsa-spying-brazil-oil-petrobras http://www.theguardian.com/world/2013/sep/09/nsa-spying-braz... "The US National Security Agency has been accused of spying on Brazil's biggest oil company, Petrobras, [...]" EDIT: added summary

Volpe 13y ago

I thought the german government immediately asked for the US government to "clarify" it's intelligence gathering in germany. That's about as 'outraged' as they can get isn't it? Personal phone calls make sense, when the spying is personal.

darklajid 13y ago
Nope, the German government actually considered that case closed - "no rights were violated" is an approximation of the statement they issued. NOW this eloquent girl representing my home country changes her attitude and there's a big 'HOW COULD THEY' going around. Before that? Not so much. So she's now (ignoring the gazillion other reasons) fueling gags about her finally realizing that she's part of 'the German people'. Sarcastic publications claim (in jest, of course) that Merkel is 'outraged to be treated like a common German'. Bottom line: Crappy government, they didn't care a damn before and needed to be directly targeted to wake up.