4 ms·

Agreed. How is Apple not to blame? If this article was about Gmail instead of Mail.app, every comment would definitely be blaming Google.

yapcguy 13y ago
Yep. What real innovation has there been on Mac OS X since Bertrand Serlet left? Where are all the adult engineers? I've met a few people now who are contracted by Apple to work on their customer facing Apps. They commute to Cupertino from the Bay Area every day. Nice people but they're second tier. They never critique Apple, think Apple is the best at everything, and shrug their shoulders at any technology developed outside of Apple. There's always an excuse for things that don't work, from broken iCloud APIs to Apple Maps. They're competent engineers, they'll do what they are told, but they're not the mavericks who will break new ground. Just my opinion, but perhaps this is something other people have experienced. EDIT: To poster below, with regards to the Bay Area which covers a large geographic region, I'm talking about the San Francisco peninsula area. Amongst people I know, Cupertino (which is in Santa Clara) is generally referred to as being in South Bay rather than the Bay Area.
- nknighthb 13y ago
  > commute to Cupertino from the Bay Area every day Cupertino is part of the Bay Area. 1 Infinite Loop is just south of the Sunnyvale border and 280. About two miles from El Camino Real. If you're going to make stuff up, at least consult a map first. > EDIT: To poster below, with regards to the Bay Area which covers a large geographic region, I'm talking about the San Francisco peninsula area. Amongst people I know, Cupertino (which is in Santa Clara) is generally referred to as being in South Bay rather than the Bay Area. South Bay, like East Bay, is a qualifier for a sub-region within the Bay Area. The peninsula is referred to as... the peninsula, not "the Bay Area". San Francisco specifically is either referred to as San Francisco, SF, or "the city". Santa Clara County is almost always referred to explicitly as such lest it be confused with the City of Santa Clara. When not speaking of governmental/political boundaries, one would more commonly say "Silicon Valley", "the valley", and sometimes its proper name of "Santa Clara Valley". You have clearly spent little if any time in the bay area and are hardly qualified to make bigoted judgements about the caliber of engineers based on where they choose to live within it.
  - yapcguy 13y ago
    Rather than providing opinion about the quality of some of the engineers working at Apple, you're nit-picking about the semantics of the term "Bay Area" and how people use it (nobody in SF I know says they're taking the 101 to visit the "Bay Area", they say "South Bay"). Since I know these people, I know their work, I know from technical discussions the level they're at, I can legitimately form an opinion, and that is they are not great engineers, merely competent. More importantly, they tow the company line, they don't think outside the box, they are anything but mavericks. Maybe Apple's software is suffering because the culture there means that engineers are too compliant or too scared to speak out and rock the boat?
    - nknighthb 13y ago
      > nobody in SF I know says they're taking the 101 to visit the "Bay Area", they say "South Bay" Of course, that would be silly, since they're already in the Bay Area. I bet they don't say they're going to visit California, either. By the way, "the 101" is slightly unusual phrasing, too. Usually it's just "101". Give it up. You have no idea what the bay area or anyone living in it is like, and it's obvious to everyone. You're the one who made this about geography. Don't get mad just because it exposed you as a fraud.
      - yapcguy 13y ago
        What a farce. You've just shown there is nothing wrong with my statement "commute to Cupertino from the Bay Area every day" which you seem to have such a problem with. Also with regards to: > "the 101" is slightly unusual phrasing, too. Usually it's just "101". Are you being serious?!!
        nknighthb 13y ago
        One does not commute "from" a place to itself. You're trying to backpedal, but your chain is tangled in the English language's entrails. It also makes no logical sense, as there would be no reason to mention where they commute from unless you thought it was of some significance, in which case you would want to be clear on where they are commuting from. Or are you now trying to insinuate that every engineer in the Bay Area (now that you've reversed your position and agreed the term is not limited to the peninsula), including Cupertino, is mediocre by virtue of being there, rather than only those engineers from the immediate San Francisco area? > Are you being serious?!! Deadly.
- mtviewdave 13y ago
  >EDIT: To poster below, with regards to the Bay Area which covers a large geographic region, I'm talking about the San Francisco peninsula area. Amongst people I know, Cupertino (which is in Santa Clara) is generally referred to as being in South Bay rather than the Bay Area. The term "Bay Area" has always referred to the nine counties touching SF Bay, and thus includes all of Santa Clara county. I've never heard your definition of "Bay Area" before, and I grew up in San Jose. The area you're referring to is generally called "The Peninsula".
  - yapcguy 13y ago
    Rest assured, my definition of "Bay Area" is the same as yours. One poster, for whatever reason, didn't like me using the phrase "commute to Cupertino from the Bay Area every day". My Edit to that poster should have been clearer, but all I'm saying is that people I know describe themselves as going to "South Bay" when referring to their commute from the Peninsula to Cupertino, to distinguish the subregion from the whole region.
- stephencanon 13y ago
  > Amongst people I know, Cupertino (which is in Santa Clara) is generally referred to as being in South Bay rather than the Bay Area. People you know are delusional. The "Bay Area" includes the peninsula, south bay, east bay, and north bay. Some people throw in Santa Cruz, which might be a bit extreme, but I've never talked to anyone who lived there for an appreciable time period and didn't include Silicon Valley (and hence Cupertino). > I've met a few people now who are contracted by Apple to work on their customer facing Apps. You've met a couple of employees (or maybe contractors?), and you believe that they are representative of thousands of technical staff? That says far more about you than it does about anything else.
  - Aloha 13y ago
    As someone who lives in the land of trees and windows (and grew up in the land of the freeway) I count Santa Cruz as part of the Bay Area, there are enough commuters running up and down CA-17 to make it count.
  - dmak 13y ago
    I met a person in San Jose who told me they were from the city, and I asked "Oh nice, me too! Which part are you from?" He named some unheard of district, and I kept asking questions to try to pinpoint where it was, and I found out he was actually from Palo Alto. That's extreme.
    - stephencanon 13y ago
      That's beyond extreme. I suppose that Palo Alto is formally a City, but ...
  - yapcguy 13y ago
    People in San Francisco who are going on the commute on the 101 don't say "I'm going to the Bay Area today" - they say "I'm going to South Bay today". People always orient around themselves. People living in Cupertino or Mountainview might say they live in the "Bay Area" but for people living further North in San Francisco or Oakland, they would consider themselves to be living in the "Bay Area" and folk further South to be living in the "South Bay". This is just semantics.
- dmak 13y ago
  It's the bay area, but we break it up into South bay, and East bay to easily pinpoint the location we are referring to. "She's from somewhere in the East bay", but it's still the bay area; But you don't use it in the following way, "I'm going to the South bay". You would just say, "I'm going to Cupertino/Ssn Jose/etc..." If you're referring to San Francisco, you would just say the city or San Francisco. If you say "frisko", everyone would know you're not from San Francisco.
deleted 13y ago
[deleted]

yapcguy 13y ago

Yep. What real innovation has there been on Mac OS X since Bertrand Serlet left? Where are all the adult engineers? I've met a few people now who are contracted by Apple to work on their customer facing Apps. They commute to Cupertino from the Bay Area every day. Nice people but they're second tier. They never critique Apple, think Apple is the best at everything, and shrug their shoulders at any technology developed outside of Apple. There's always an excuse for things that don't work, from broken iCloud APIs to Apple Maps. They're competent engineers, they'll do what they are told, but they're not the mavericks who will break new ground. Just my opinion, but perhaps this is something other people have experienced. EDIT: To poster below, with regards to the Bay Area which covers a large geographic region, I'm talking about the San Francisco peninsula area. Amongst people I know, Cupertino (which is in Santa Clara) is generally referred to as being in South Bay rather than the Bay Area.

nknighthb 13y ago
> commute to Cupertino from the Bay Area every day Cupertino is part of the Bay Area. 1 Infinite Loop is just south of the Sunnyvale border and 280. About two miles from El Camino Real. If you're going to make stuff up, at least consult a map first. > EDIT: To poster below, with regards to the Bay Area which covers a large geographic region, I'm talking about the San Francisco peninsula area. Amongst people I know, Cupertino (which is in Santa Clara) is generally referred to as being in South Bay rather than the Bay Area. South Bay, like East Bay, is a qualifier for a sub-region within the Bay Area. The peninsula is referred to as... the peninsula, not "the Bay Area". San Francisco specifically is either referred to as San Francisco, SF, or "the city". Santa Clara County is almost always referred to explicitly as such lest it be confused with the City of Santa Clara. When not speaking of governmental/political boundaries, one would more commonly say "Silicon Valley", "the valley", and sometimes its proper name of "Santa Clara Valley". You have clearly spent little if any time in the bay area and are hardly qualified to make bigoted judgements about the caliber of engineers based on where they choose to live within it.
- yapcguy 13y ago
  Rather than providing opinion about the quality of some of the engineers working at Apple, you're nit-picking about the semantics of the term "Bay Area" and how people use it (nobody in SF I know says they're taking the 101 to visit the "Bay Area", they say "South Bay"). Since I know these people, I know their work, I know from technical discussions the level they're at, I can legitimately form an opinion, and that is they are not great engineers, merely competent. More importantly, they tow the company line, they don't think outside the box, they are anything but mavericks. Maybe Apple's software is suffering because the culture there means that engineers are too compliant or too scared to speak out and rock the boat?
  - nknighthb 13y ago
    > nobody in SF I know says they're taking the 101 to visit the "Bay Area", they say "South Bay" Of course, that would be silly, since they're already in the Bay Area. I bet they don't say they're going to visit California, either. By the way, "the 101" is slightly unusual phrasing, too. Usually it's just "101". Give it up. You have no idea what the bay area or anyone living in it is like, and it's obvious to everyone. You're the one who made this about geography. Don't get mad just because it exposed you as a fraud.
    - yapcguy 13y ago
      What a farce. You've just shown there is nothing wrong with my statement "commute to Cupertino from the Bay Area every day" which you seem to have such a problem with. Also with regards to: > "the 101" is slightly unusual phrasing, too. Usually it's just "101". Are you being serious?!!
      - nknighthb 13y ago
        One does not commute "from" a place to itself. You're trying to backpedal, but your chain is tangled in the English language's entrails. It also makes no logical sense, as there would be no reason to mention where they commute from unless you thought it was of some significance, in which case you would want to be clear on where they are commuting from. Or are you now trying to insinuate that every engineer in the Bay Area (now that you've reversed your position and agreed the term is not limited to the peninsula), including Cupertino, is mediocre by virtue of being there, rather than only those engineers from the immediate San Francisco area? > Are you being serious?!! Deadly.
mtviewdave 13y ago
>EDIT: To poster below, with regards to the Bay Area which covers a large geographic region, I'm talking about the San Francisco peninsula area. Amongst people I know, Cupertino (which is in Santa Clara) is generally referred to as being in South Bay rather than the Bay Area. The term "Bay Area" has always referred to the nine counties touching SF Bay, and thus includes all of Santa Clara county. I've never heard your definition of "Bay Area" before, and I grew up in San Jose. The area you're referring to is generally called "The Peninsula".
- yapcguy 13y ago
  Rest assured, my definition of "Bay Area" is the same as yours. One poster, for whatever reason, didn't like me using the phrase "commute to Cupertino from the Bay Area every day". My Edit to that poster should have been clearer, but all I'm saying is that people I know describe themselves as going to "South Bay" when referring to their commute from the Peninsula to Cupertino, to distinguish the subregion from the whole region.
stephencanon 13y ago
> Amongst people I know, Cupertino (which is in Santa Clara) is generally referred to as being in South Bay rather than the Bay Area. People you know are delusional. The "Bay Area" includes the peninsula, south bay, east bay, and north bay. Some people throw in Santa Cruz, which might be a bit extreme, but I've never talked to anyone who lived there for an appreciable time period and didn't include Silicon Valley (and hence Cupertino). > I've met a few people now who are contracted by Apple to work on their customer facing Apps. You've met a couple of employees (or maybe contractors?), and you believe that they are representative of thousands of technical staff? That says far more about you than it does about anything else.
- Aloha 13y ago
  As someone who lives in the land of trees and windows (and grew up in the land of the freeway) I count Santa Cruz as part of the Bay Area, there are enough commuters running up and down CA-17 to make it count.
- dmak 13y ago
  I met a person in San Jose who told me they were from the city, and I asked "Oh nice, me too! Which part are you from?" He named some unheard of district, and I kept asking questions to try to pinpoint where it was, and I found out he was actually from Palo Alto. That's extreme.
  - stephencanon 13y ago
    That's beyond extreme. I suppose that Palo Alto is formally a City, but ...
- yapcguy 13y ago
  People in San Francisco who are going on the commute on the 101 don't say "I'm going to the Bay Area today" - they say "I'm going to South Bay today". People always orient around themselves. People living in Cupertino or Mountainview might say they live in the "Bay Area" but for people living further North in San Francisco or Oakland, they would consider themselves to be living in the "Bay Area" and folk further South to be living in the "South Bay". This is just semantics.
dmak 13y ago
It's the bay area, but we break it up into South bay, and East bay to easily pinpoint the location we are referring to. "She's from somewhere in the East bay", but it's still the bay area; But you don't use it in the following way, "I'm going to the South bay". You would just say, "I'm going to Cupertino/Ssn Jose/etc..." If you're referring to San Francisco, you would just say the city or San Francisco. If you say "frisko", everyone would know you're not from San Francisco.

deleted 13y ago

[deleted]