3 ms·

First, let's get "correlation ≠ causation" out of the way. Second, where does gender lie—is it a physical characteristic, a social characteristic, a cultural o

by duaneb 13y ago

First, let's get "correlation ≠ causation" out of the way. Second, where does gender lie—is it a physical characteristic, a social characteristic, a cultural one? I'm physically male but don't really identify myself with any gender. It's not at all clear which direction the identity/behavior causality moves, and most likely it's both ways. Third, I don't think much positive can come from drawing conclusions that restrict people's capabilities—in this case, ascribing broad behavior to what women and men want. It's an inaccurate viewpoint of the world and only helps you if the viewpoint happens to be a blind spot of yours, i.e. if you're a woman who does believe she won't have an issue finding a male in her thirties or a male who believes he won't be able to find a woman. In this case, of course it will make brilliant sense to you and help you, but not everyone has this problem. I certainly don't; I'm 22 and (hopefully) looking at marriage. In other words, I don't think examining the cause will necessarily help us in any way but to change it, and binding poor or undesirable to an unalterable part of people will only retard change.

ahoy 13y ago
It might also be the case that the gender you identify as isn't what's most important, but the gender that 'normal' society perceives you as.
PeterisP 13y ago
Of course 'not everyone has this problem' - the article itself states that it is about ~30% of women in a certain age group, so a majority of women don't have this problem, but it's still large enough to have a noticeable impact on society. And if you're looking at general statistical trends (i.e., any statments in form 'what women want'), then you're talking about approximations/averages up to the first significant digit, and you can easily be accurate to that degree with simplifying by clearly false assumptions as two clear genders and everyone being heterosexual. And it still is worthwhile to make such analysis, since it can provide insight about why/how large trends occur.
- duaneb 13y ago
  > Of course 'not everyone has this problem' The problem is that not everybody takes this premise for granted!
- malandrew 13y ago
  The biggest problem for this particular group is that they often have completely unrealistic expectations of the men they want to date. They start things off with the fact that they want to marry and have kids and that is often extremely undesirable for men. It's not that men don't eventually want that same goal, but that goal comes well after having dating years or longer. It might take you a year or longer before you determine whether or not you want a woman to be the mother of your kids. During that year, many men are mainly interested in sex and casual companionship.
nailer 13y ago
> Second, where does gender lie—is it a physical characteristic Yes. Your genitals, height, the shape of your pelvis, the amount of various hormones in your system and the ratio of white/grey matter in your brain are primarily determined by whether you have one X chromosome or two. This is what gender is. All other definitions are pseudo science. In order to evaluate heterosexual relationships, we should evaluate the groups involved. It is not unethical to do so. This doesn't mean we ignore individuals, which would be unethical, those things are logically not related.
- duaneb 13y ago
  Genitals refer to sex, not gender. And of course gender isn't a scientific term, or it would be useless.
  - malandrew 13y ago
    Yes. There is more to gender identity than just male or female and more to sexual attraction than straight/gay/bisexual. The tendency to put many aspects of life in binary terms when many aspects of life are decidedly not binary, but merely bimodal complicates things terribly.
  - nailer 13y ago
    1. "Depending on the context, the term may refer to biological sex (i.e. the state of being male, female or intersex), sex-based social structures (including gender roles and other social roles), or gender identity." References: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gender http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gender 2. "Sexologist John Money introduced the terminological distinction between biological sex and gender as a role in 1955." References: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gender http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gender 3. John Money is a charlatan and a child abuser: References: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Money http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Money

by duaneb 13y ago

ahoy 13y ago

It might also be the case that the gender you identify as isn't what's most important, but the gender that 'normal' society perceives you as.

PeterisP 13y ago

Of course 'not everyone has this problem' - the article itself states that it is about ~30% of women in a certain age group, so a majority of women don't have this problem, but it's still large enough to have a noticeable impact on society. And if you're looking at general statistical trends (i.e., any statments in form 'what women want'), then you're talking about approximations/averages up to the first significant digit, and you can easily be accurate to that degree with simplifying by clearly false assumptions as two clear genders and everyone being heterosexual. And it still is worthwhile to make such analysis, since it can provide insight about why/how large trends occur.

duaneb 13y ago
> Of course 'not everyone has this problem' The problem is that not everybody takes this premise for granted!
malandrew 13y ago
The biggest problem for this particular group is that they often have completely unrealistic expectations of the men they want to date. They start things off with the fact that they want to marry and have kids and that is often extremely undesirable for men. It's not that men don't eventually want that same goal, but that goal comes well after having dating years or longer. It might take you a year or longer before you determine whether or not you want a woman to be the mother of your kids. During that year, many men are mainly interested in sex and casual companionship.

nailer 13y ago

> Second, where does gender lie—is it a physical characteristic Yes. Your genitals, height, the shape of your pelvis, the amount of various hormones in your system and the ratio of white/grey matter in your brain are primarily determined by whether you have one X chromosome or two. This is what gender is. All other definitions are pseudo science. In order to evaluate heterosexual relationships, we should evaluate the groups involved. It is not unethical to do so. This doesn't mean we ignore individuals, which would be unethical, those things are logically not related.

duaneb 13y ago
Genitals refer to sex, not gender. And of course gender isn't a scientific term, or it would be useless.
- malandrew 13y ago
  Yes. There is more to gender identity than just male or female and more to sexual attraction than straight/gay/bisexual. The tendency to put many aspects of life in binary terms when many aspects of life are decidedly not binary, but merely bimodal complicates things terribly.
- nailer 13y ago
  1. "Depending on the context, the term may refer to biological sex (i.e. the state of being male, female or intersex), sex-based social structures (including gender roles and other social roles), or gender identity." References: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gender http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gender 2. "Sexologist John Money introduced the terminological distinction between biological sex and gender as a role in 1955." References: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gender http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gender 3. John Money is a charlatan and a child abuser: References: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Money http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Money