4 ms·

Wow, the comments are so heavy and downbeat on this story. There seem to be 2 main arguments: Various people are saying it's a pyramid scheme and therefore a c

by iand 13y ago

Wow, the comments are so heavy and downbeat on this story. There seem to be 2 main arguments: Various people are saying it's a pyramid scheme and therefore a con. I don't see it myself. A pyramid scheme generally doesn't have a physical product and crucially requires a number of tiers recruiting new members. Origami Owl just appears to be a straightforward direct sales model akin to Tupperware or various cosmetics parties (e.g. Avon in UK). The reps buy stock, arrange the parties and sell it. That seems to be entirely legit. The second bone of contention is with the use of the word "designer" as a name for the sales reps. Hardly the crime of the century. Tupperware call their reps "consultants" but they don't charge consultancy rates. It's just in keeping with the theme. I think we should be celebrating this young woman's initiative in seeing a market, finding a product that fits and building out the business.

pessimizer 13y ago
>a pyramid scheme generally doesn't have a physical product Pyramid schemes frequently have physical products. >and crucially requires a number of tiers recruiting new members. Bingo. If there's no way to make money recruiting, it's not a pyramid scheme. >I think we should be celebrating this young woman's initiative in seeing a market, finding a product that fits and building out the business. As far as I can tell from the article, this business was created, grown, and is run by the girl's family. Her entire contribution may have been simply inspiring the creation of a business by setting up a stand selling charm bracelets in a single mall that did surprisingly well during a single Christmas season, and in giving a cute origin story to the company.
judk 13y ago
It's an MLM scam, which is different from a pyramid scam. Still a scam. We velebrstet people who create value and make people happier, not people who trick others into signing up for moneylosing premise who them off in search of a greater fool. If the profits come from the pockets of the sales staff, not from end users enjoying the product, it is a scam.
roc 13y ago
> "Origami Owl just appears to be a straightforward direct sales model akin to Tupperware or various cosmetics parties (e.g. Avon in UK). The reps buy stock, arrange the parties and sell it. That seems to be entirely legit." "Multi-level marketing" is looked down upon as little better than pyramid schemes/cons, even though people are aware they aren't, strictly speaking, those things. Quite a bit of the structure is heavily anti-consumer and even anti-'consultant'. Incentives often flow up, from each particular direct salesperson, to the people that recruited them, in a web of perverse incentives that leave customers and reps alike with a bad taste. To say nothing of the heavy leveraging of peer/social pressure to incent purchases by a captive/low-information audience, beyond what they would likely buy on their own. > "Tupperware call their reps "consultants"" Most of these kinds of companies call their reps "consultants", because of liability problems, should they go around presenting themselves as employees or direct representatives of the companies whose goods they're selling. And these consultants are repeatedly, explicitly admonished against presenting themselves this way. The admonishments often try to pretty up the arrangement, like you did, by making "consultant" seem like a desirable title, regardless of the particulars of the relationship. Which, in and of itself, is a fairly strong "smell" that the business (and the relationship) isn't quite on the up-and-up. EDIT: typos
- efa 13y ago
  > To say nothing of the heavy leveraging of peer/social pressure to incent purchases by a captive/low-information audience, beyond what they would likely buy on their own. Yes, my wife if constantly invited to these "parties" were the host sells some kitchen or personal products. She also feels she has to buy something even though she doesn't need anything. Business built on guilt and social pressure.
  - infinite8s 13y ago
    Doesn't that drive most of consumption (at least the social pressure aspect)?
jerrya 13y ago
It's MLM. https://www.origamiowl.com/join/opportunity/index.cfm https://www.origamiowl.com/join/opportunity/index.cfm REWARDING It's not just about the money you earn, but how that money can change your life and impact others. +Get Paid What You're Worth Origami Owl offers one of the highest personal commissions in the home party industry (50% on Charms, Plates and Dangles + 30% on all other jewelry) +Earn Money Quickly Arrange a Jewelry Bar and keep the profits that night +Become A Leader Mentor a team of Independent Designers and earn additional income on their sales volume. +Enjoy Rewards Earn recognition, grow as an individual and enjoy the fun perks we have in store for you!

by iand 13y ago

pessimizer 13y ago

>a pyramid scheme generally doesn't have a physical product Pyramid schemes frequently have physical products. >and crucially requires a number of tiers recruiting new members. Bingo. If there's no way to make money recruiting, it's not a pyramid scheme. >I think we should be celebrating this young woman's initiative in seeing a market, finding a product that fits and building out the business. As far as I can tell from the article, this business was created, grown, and is run by the girl's family. Her entire contribution may have been simply inspiring the creation of a business by setting up a stand selling charm bracelets in a single mall that did surprisingly well during a single Christmas season, and in giving a cute origin story to the company.

judk 13y ago

It's an MLM scam, which is different from a pyramid scam. Still a scam. We velebrstet people who create value and make people happier, not people who trick others into signing up for moneylosing premise who them off in search of a greater fool. If the profits come from the pockets of the sales staff, not from end users enjoying the product, it is a scam.

roc 13y ago

> "Origami Owl just appears to be a straightforward direct sales model akin to Tupperware or various cosmetics parties (e.g. Avon in UK). The reps buy stock, arrange the parties and sell it. That seems to be entirely legit." "Multi-level marketing" is looked down upon as little better than pyramid schemes/cons, even though people are aware they aren't, strictly speaking, those things. Quite a bit of the structure is heavily anti-consumer and even anti-'consultant'. Incentives often flow up, from each particular direct salesperson, to the people that recruited them, in a web of perverse incentives that leave customers and reps alike with a bad taste. To say nothing of the heavy leveraging of peer/social pressure to incent purchases by a captive/low-information audience, beyond what they would likely buy on their own. > "Tupperware call their reps "consultants"" Most of these kinds of companies call their reps "consultants", because of liability problems, should they go around presenting themselves as employees or direct representatives of the companies whose goods they're selling. And these consultants are repeatedly, explicitly admonished against presenting themselves this way. The admonishments often try to pretty up the arrangement, like you did, by making "consultant" seem like a desirable title, regardless of the particulars of the relationship. Which, in and of itself, is a fairly strong "smell" that the business (and the relationship) isn't quite on the up-and-up. EDIT: typos

efa 13y ago
> To say nothing of the heavy leveraging of peer/social pressure to incent purchases by a captive/low-information audience, beyond what they would likely buy on their own. Yes, my wife if constantly invited to these "parties" were the host sells some kitchen or personal products. She also feels she has to buy something even though she doesn't need anything. Business built on guilt and social pressure.
- infinite8s 13y ago
  Doesn't that drive most of consumption (at least the social pressure aspect)?

jerrya 13y ago

It's MLM. https://www.origamiowl.com/join/opportunity/index.cfm https://www.origamiowl.com/join/opportunity/index.cfm REWARDING It's not just about the money you earn, but how that money can change your life and impact others. +Get Paid What You're Worth Origami Owl offers one of the highest personal commissions in the home party industry (50% on Charms, Plates and Dangles + 30% on all other jewelry) +Earn Money Quickly Arrange a Jewelry Bar and keep the profits that night +Become A Leader Mentor a team of Independent Designers and earn additional income on their sales volume. +Enjoy Rewards Earn recognition, grow as an individual and enjoy the fun perks we have in store for you!