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A great way to expedite that transition is to disrespect them, treating them like your enemy when they're still your ally.

by jsmcgd 13y ago

krapp 13y ago
Well yes, which is why you try not to get caught.
- mpyne 13y ago
  That's true, but the easiest way not to get caught is to not do it at all. Presumably spying on friends may be needed someday, but it brings the kind of diplomatic flamefest that should keep such spying restricted to Very Important Things and not just "we'll tap them because their numbers fell in our lap".
XorNot 13y ago
You know what has millions of people and is entirely unlike an individual human being? A country. The convenient narratives spun to explain international politics seem entirely lost on people and are being treated as literal relations of how countries behave rather then shorthand. "China" doesn't act like a person. It doesn't have emotions, moods or opinions like a person does. When we talk about "China thinks this" or "China feels that" we are not describing the moods of a human being, we're not even describing necessarily the aggregate mood of it's government except in so far as we're using a shorthand because we want to talk about trends in policy making or the types of people being appointed as advisers/policy-makers on whichever issue we are actually talking about specifically.
- grey-area 13y ago
  Countries and the people who make them up also form alliances, hate betrayal, and hold grudges. If your country thinks it is acceptable to betray allies, you will soon have no allies. If you say one thing and do another and the gap is wide enough, eventually no other country will believe a word you say, even when you tell the truth. Alliances between countries are not formed in a rational way just on a specific issue normally, but based on previous actions and previous issues, and old loyalties. To betray those loyalties just means no-one will feel any loyalty to you - that may work in the short-term if you are big enough but long-term it's a terrible strategy. So in that sense countries are like people, though I agree in many senses they are not.
  - XorNot 13y ago
    Alliances are not formed on a specific issue, which is also why they're not broken on intangible issues. This is theatre by Merkel because it plays well with her public. I don't imagine US diplomats are losing any sleep over this.

A great way to expedite that transition is to disrespect them, treating them like your enemy when they're still your ally.

by jsmcgd 13y ago

A great way to expedite that transition is to disrespect them, treating them like your enemy when they're still your ally.

krapp 13y ago

Well yes, which is why you try not to get caught.

mpyne 13y ago
That's true, but the easiest way not to get caught is to not do it at all. Presumably spying on friends may be needed someday, but it brings the kind of diplomatic flamefest that should keep such spying restricted to Very Important Things and not just "we'll tap them because their numbers fell in our lap".

XorNot 13y ago

You know what has millions of people and is entirely unlike an individual human being? A country. The convenient narratives spun to explain international politics seem entirely lost on people and are being treated as literal relations of how countries behave rather then shorthand. "China" doesn't act like a person. It doesn't have emotions, moods or opinions like a person does. When we talk about "China thinks this" or "China feels that" we are not describing the moods of a human being, we're not even describing necessarily the aggregate mood of it's government except in so far as we're using a shorthand because we want to talk about trends in policy making or the types of people being appointed as advisers/policy-makers on whichever issue we are actually talking about specifically.

grey-area 13y ago
Countries and the people who make them up also form alliances, hate betrayal, and hold grudges. If your country thinks it is acceptable to betray allies, you will soon have no allies. If you say one thing and do another and the gap is wide enough, eventually no other country will believe a word you say, even when you tell the truth. Alliances between countries are not formed in a rational way just on a specific issue normally, but based on previous actions and previous issues, and old loyalties. To betray those loyalties just means no-one will feel any loyalty to you - that may work in the short-term if you are big enough but long-term it's a terrible strategy. So in that sense countries are like people, though I agree in many senses they are not.
- XorNot 13y ago
  Alliances are not formed on a specific issue, which is also why they're not broken on intangible issues. This is theatre by Merkel because it plays well with her public. I don't imagine US diplomats are losing any sleep over this.