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One of the other subtle things they do with metadata is their fascination with IP addresses. Intro will enable LinkedIn to have the IP address of all of your s

by buro9 13y ago

One of the other subtle things they do with metadata is their fascination with IP addresses. Intro will enable LinkedIn to have the IP address of all of your staff using it, and thus (from corp Wifi, home locations of staff, popular places your staff go) they will know which IP addresses relate to your staff members (or you individually if you are the only person on a given IP). This means that even without logging onto LinkedIn, if you view a page on their site they can then create that "so and so viewed your profile", which is what they're selling to other users as the upgrade package to LinkedIn. Worse than that, as a company you can pay to have LinkedIn data available when you process your log files, and from that you know which companies viewed your site. And that isn't based on vague ideas of which IPs belong to a company according to public registrar info, this is quality data as the people who visited from an IP told LinkedIn who they were. Think of that when you're doing competitor analysis, or involved in any legal case and researching the web site of the other party. And VPNs won't help you here, as you'd still be strongly identified on your device and leaking your IP address all the time. There are so many reasons why this LinkedIn feature needs to die a very visible and public death, and very few about why it should survive. It's a neat hack for sure, but then so were most pop-up and pop-under adverts and the neatness of overcoming the "impossible" is no reason this should survive.

ig1 13y ago
fyi most of the major marketing automation platforms already let you do this. They're based upon a peer-to-peer exchange of lead information (i.e you identify yourself to one site and they'll sell that information to other sites in exchange for identifying information about other users), hence it's already far more accurate than public registrar information.
- buro9 13y ago
  Hey Imran (chatted to you in IRC a few times), I do realise that lead information is sold, and I've had enough offers to sell my own users (which I've declined) to realise just how prevalent the practise is. LinkedIn sell a fairly complete business dataset. My point is that a lot of people might imagine they could do this, but probably don't really believe that they are doing this. Then when you add in Intro's almost constant tracking (vs occasionally accessing one of the sites that sells your data - or LinkedIn on the web) it is easy to see just how complete one would be making that dataset. I'd say that most people don't really understand believe that this happens and how good (if that's the word) that dataset already is.
  - ig1 13y ago
    Which LinkedIn dataset are you talking about ? - Rapleaf used to sell one but I don't think that's available anymore.
  - gergles 13y ago
    Citation needed. There's no reference anywhere on LinkedIn's site to selling data sets at all. The only thing they sell are subscriptions to their site and there's nothing anywhere that indicates any of those include any kind of this data.
    - lost_my_pwd 13y ago
      If I read this right, Visistat itself says that they aggregate visit data provided by a list of websites that include LinkedIn: http://www.visistat.com/visistat-solutions-social-media.php http://www.visistat.com/visistat-solutions-social-media.php
      - ig1 13y ago
        Looking at their live demo it looks like you just sign-in with the linkedin auth and they use the regular LinkedIn API to enrich people information, so it's not anything the average user can't access via Linkedin anyway.
        vdaniuk 13y ago
        If this is true, this whole thread is full of misinformation.
- monkeyspaw 13y ago
  What platforms do this? I'm pretty curious how they advertise the fact that they do something like this as well.
  - ivix 13y ago
    marketo for example.
    - monkeyspaw 13y ago
      I think I'm confused as to what, exactly, they do that you're objecting to. Some time ago on HN I remember reading about a company that embeds forms on websites. So if I filled out a contact form on Site A, the third party collects the information, stores a cookie on my computer. Then when I visit Site B, the cookie uniquely identifies me, and the third party company gives my email address to Site B, even though I didn't fill out a form. Is this what you're suggesting marketo does?
chaz 13y ago
The only people that are going to use this new feature are people who already use LinkedIn a lot. In which case, they already know your IP addresses, since you're likely using LinkedIn from work, home, and mobile anyway. So if they're mining IP addresses, I'm not sure that this is providing something new.
- deleted 13y ago
  [deleted]
300bps 13y ago
Worse than that, as a company you can pay to have LinkedIn data available when you process your log files, and from that you know which companies viewed your site. To give a real world example of how true this is, I have a friend that owns a service company. He subscribes to Visistat for which he embeds a small snippet of Javascript into every page in his site. He uses a product of theirs called LeadCaster which then identifies the company name and often the contact name of people that visit the site. How does it do this? Look at Visitstat's Learning Center for an explanation: NOTE: Contact information is supplied by the contact databases of Data.com (formerly Jigsaw), NetProspex and LinkedIn. Not all information will be available for every company and listing, however, your reports will show all the data we are able to access for you. So for a real world example that he told me about a few hours ago, a lady was on his website. She left without doing anything more than viewing a few pages. Through Visistat, he was able to get her company name and contact information from LinkedIn. He looked up the phone number for her company and called her. He then said, "I understand you're interest in ..." She replied, "How did you know I am interested in ...?" This is spooky as shit and almost made me delete my LinkedIn profile today.
- taway2012 13y ago
  Will blocking third party cookies prevent this? Or is this a server-to-server transfer of regular (second-party?) cookies?
  - Xorlev 13y ago
    Perhaps partially. Doesn't stop evercookies or IP address tracking or ever more inventive means. Check out Pardot if you want to get an idea of what's possible. They drop a cookie on you the moment you browse the site and it logs every interaction you have with the site. When you finally sign up or fill in a form somewhere it'll associate those sessions with your new account and let you better target drip campaigns and market to them. There's a lot of other ways to identify someone. It's like in Serenity -- everything has a fingerprint.
- pjmlp 13y ago
  Someone told me over the weekend that some companies use your cookies to track down prices and adjust their prices based on your surfing behavior. These friends of mine discovered it while browsing an airline website, each with his own laptop, only to discover different prices being offered. Which they found very strange, given they were seated next to each other. After cleaning the browser history and visiting the same web site with anonymous mode on, both got the same prices being offered.

by buro9 13y ago

ig1 13y ago

fyi most of the major marketing automation platforms already let you do this. They're based upon a peer-to-peer exchange of lead information (i.e you identify yourself to one site and they'll sell that information to other sites in exchange for identifying information about other users), hence it's already far more accurate than public registrar information.

buro9 13y ago
Hey Imran (chatted to you in IRC a few times), I do realise that lead information is sold, and I've had enough offers to sell my own users (which I've declined) to realise just how prevalent the practise is. LinkedIn sell a fairly complete business dataset. My point is that a lot of people might imagine they could do this, but probably don't really believe that they are doing this. Then when you add in Intro's almost constant tracking (vs occasionally accessing one of the sites that sells your data - or LinkedIn on the web) it is easy to see just how complete one would be making that dataset. I'd say that most people don't really understand believe that this happens and how good (if that's the word) that dataset already is.
- ig1 13y ago
  Which LinkedIn dataset are you talking about ? - Rapleaf used to sell one but I don't think that's available anymore.
- gergles 13y ago
  Citation needed. There's no reference anywhere on LinkedIn's site to selling data sets at all. The only thing they sell are subscriptions to their site and there's nothing anywhere that indicates any of those include any kind of this data.
  - lost_my_pwd 13y ago
    If I read this right, Visistat itself says that they aggregate visit data provided by a list of websites that include LinkedIn: http://www.visistat.com/visistat-solutions-social-media.php http://www.visistat.com/visistat-solutions-social-media.php
    - ig1 13y ago
      Looking at their live demo it looks like you just sign-in with the linkedin auth and they use the regular LinkedIn API to enrich people information, so it's not anything the average user can't access via Linkedin anyway.
      - vdaniuk 13y ago
        If this is true, this whole thread is full of misinformation.
monkeyspaw 13y ago
What platforms do this? I'm pretty curious how they advertise the fact that they do something like this as well.
- ivix 13y ago
  marketo for example.
  - monkeyspaw 13y ago
    I think I'm confused as to what, exactly, they do that you're objecting to. Some time ago on HN I remember reading about a company that embeds forms on websites. So if I filled out a contact form on Site A, the third party collects the information, stores a cookie on my computer. Then when I visit Site B, the cookie uniquely identifies me, and the third party company gives my email address to Site B, even though I didn't fill out a form. Is this what you're suggesting marketo does?

chaz 13y ago

The only people that are going to use this new feature are people who already use LinkedIn a lot. In which case, they already know your IP addresses, since you're likely using LinkedIn from work, home, and mobile anyway. So if they're mining IP addresses, I'm not sure that this is providing something new.

deleted 13y ago
[deleted]

300bps 13y ago

Worse than that, as a company you can pay to have LinkedIn data available when you process your log files, and from that you know which companies viewed your site. To give a real world example of how true this is, I have a friend that owns a service company. He subscribes to Visistat for which he embeds a small snippet of Javascript into every page in his site. He uses a product of theirs called LeadCaster which then identifies the company name and often the contact name of people that visit the site. How does it do this? Look at Visitstat's Learning Center for an explanation: NOTE: Contact information is supplied by the contact databases of Data.com (formerly Jigsaw), NetProspex and LinkedIn. Not all information will be available for every company and listing, however, your reports will show all the data we are able to access for you. So for a real world example that he told me about a few hours ago, a lady was on his website. She left without doing anything more than viewing a few pages. Through Visistat, he was able to get her company name and contact information from LinkedIn. He looked up the phone number for her company and called her. He then said, "I understand you're interest in ..." She replied, "How did you know I am interested in ...?" This is spooky as shit and almost made me delete my LinkedIn profile today.

taway2012 13y ago
Will blocking third party cookies prevent this? Or is this a server-to-server transfer of regular (second-party?) cookies?
- Xorlev 13y ago
  Perhaps partially. Doesn't stop evercookies or IP address tracking or ever more inventive means. Check out Pardot if you want to get an idea of what's possible. They drop a cookie on you the moment you browse the site and it logs every interaction you have with the site. When you finally sign up or fill in a form somewhere it'll associate those sessions with your new account and let you better target drip campaigns and market to them. There's a lot of other ways to identify someone. It's like in Serenity -- everything has a fingerprint.
pjmlp 13y ago
Someone told me over the weekend that some companies use your cookies to track down prices and adjust their prices based on your surfing behavior. These friends of mine discovered it while browsing an airline website, each with his own laptop, only to discover different prices being offered. Which they found very strange, given they were seated next to each other. After cleaning the browser history and visiting the same web site with anonymous mode on, both got the same prices being offered.