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I am a developer at an investment bank that passed the Level 1 Chartered Financial Analyst exam part of which explicitly tests you on your ability to read accou

by 300bps 13y ago

I am a developer at an investment bank that passed the Level 1 Chartered Financial Analyst exam part of which explicitly tests you on your ability to read accounting statements. If you are a developer without similar training, please realize that you will probably sound as uninformed offering your commentary on this topic as would an equity analyst giving their opinion on pages of C code.

ejstronge 13y ago
It sounds like your background might allow you to offer a unique perspective - or at least temper the immediate conclusions a layman might have. What do you think about the importance of this announcement, given your training?
megablast 13y ago
Feel free to offer your unique perspective. But we can still look at this from other avenues.
sbuccini 13y ago
It sounds like you can give some solid insight on this issue. Could you please state your position instead of simply mentioning that other people are unqualified to do so?
- 300bps 13y ago
  It sounds like you can give some solid insight on this issue. No, I can't because I don't follow Microsoft as a stock. The analogy is that while I am able to program in Java, that doesn't mean I'm qualified to evaluate a particular code base written in Java without investing substantial time to research it. The analogy is not perfect of course - since most of the time people writing code aren't purposely trying to obfuscate it like people who write accounting statements are trying to do.
  - yesplorer 13y ago
    Your analogy is nonsense and speaks of the pomposity someone earlier mentioned: Microsoft presented only a summary level of revenue statement for a quarter indicating both GAAP and non-GAAP adjusted figures and you are telling us you need time to research to make a contribution here even though you've already said others are not qualified to contribute? By your analogy I will be surprised if I show a 15-line Java Class to a Java programmer and he tells me he needs to research it to make sense of it. By comparison, Microsoft presented a single Java Class [revenue statement] not a codebase[Financial Report] by the way: so far you haven't made any contribution to the discussion even though others have asked you nicely to.
    - bsaul 13y ago
      i suppose the point 300bps is trying to make is that those kind of announcement need a lot of work before you're able to draw any kind of conclusion from it, either positiv or negativ. I only have a very small amount of knowledge in accounting, but i was amazed at how subjective and arbitrary some accounting decision can be, and as a consequence, how you can make profits appear basically anywhere you want to ( on one year).
  - countrybama24 13y ago
    Equity analyst here. The people following those companies don't know dick either. And the CFA doesn't give you ANY credentials (certainly not just level I) regarding business strategy. Stop listening to people based on titles and credentials and start evaluating (and critiquing) their arguments. My opinion? Microsoft is expanding revenue but losing it's core business slowly. I think they'll look pretty good for the next couple of years until viable competitors to Office come along. All these other sources of revenue are contingent upon their traction in enterprise, something that's unlikely to change in the short or medium term but when it does will very unpleasant for them.
    - zvrba 13y ago
      > until viable competitors to Office come along I don't think this will happen so soon. OO still looks&feels like from 90-ies, has only basic functionality, and MS Office's data formats are sufficiently complex (and probably also intermingled with implementation details) that I don't see a 100%-compatible importer being developed anytime soon.
clavalle 13y ago
I think much of the HN audience deals with the business side of the house enough to get their bearings on an revenue statement.
nilved 13y ago
This may be the most pompous comment on HN, a forum known for its pompous comments. Congratulations.
- 300bps 13y ago
  This may be the most pompous comment on HN Who is more pompous? The people thinking they are intrinsically expert at financial analysis posting here or the person that points out how silly they sound? Seriously, picture a real financial analyst with no computer background reading your Ruby code and drawing all kinds of nonsensical conclusions from it. You'd probably laugh your head off when they read a comment in the code and thought that it was a functional instruction. That's the type of things developers are doing here with their armchair financial analysis.
  - socillion 13y ago
    A similar comment deriding your hypothetical financial analyst would be called pompous if they listed credentials, claimed the analyst was uninformed, then declined to say anything more (assuming other commentators were similarly uninformed). Saying "you're wrong" and leaving it at that isn't very helpful and most people will simply ignore the statement.
  - TranquilMarmot 13y ago
    A financial analyst may not be able to critique my code, but he can certainly tell if my program works or not and offer his opinion on how it should work. His take on it is not invalid just because he doesn't know how to program. The same can be said for this- I can look at it as a developer and get a general idea of how Microsoft is doing. I may not know all the intricacies behind it, but that doesn't mean my input should be thrown into the trash.
    - deleted 13y ago
      [deleted]
  - netpenthe 13y ago
    just because you're not an 'expert' doesn't mean you shouldn't try... you gotta try to get better at it.
droneStrikes 13y ago
Then I absolutely want to know more about such things. Please do share some or anything you can, regarding, oh... I dunno... whatever sort of insights might escape the ordinary common man, equipped with a high-schooler's grasp of basic integer math. I've heard these sort of claims before, coming from financially oriented colleagues. I hate it when they make these kinds of dismissive pronouncements. The worst thing you could ever do is plainly state that a thing is simply too complicated to be worth explaining. If these arcane statements should be regarded as esoteric hieroglyphics by the uninitiated, at least tell us which one is the sun god? Seriously, we're all pretty curious types around here, and even when the material is bone dry and stale as Soviet bread, we all enjoy learning. At least I know I do.
- 300bps 13y ago
  The worst thing you could ever do is plainly state that a thing is simply too complicated to be worth explaining. After working in finance-related IT for 16 years, I signed up for the Level 1 CFA exam to take it in December of 2009. I've been in IT for 20 years but I thought, "How hard could this be?" I found out. I ended up studying for over 350 hours and was thankfully one of the 33% of people that passed the test when I took it. 67% of people that took the test failed it. So I ask you - how much of those 350 hours of studying do you think I can squeeze in a Hacker News comment? Do you think you could teach a financial analyst how to analyze Java code in a Hacker News comment? Would you take the time to even try?
  - iamleppert 13y ago
    That still doesn't change the fact you have contributed absolutely nothing to this conversation. Your comments should would be marked as flame-bait, or not informative on old slashdot.
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      - iamleppert 13y ago
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deleted 13y ago
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r00fus 13y ago
Demonstrate, don't declare. So please, leverage some of that CFA knowledge and give us your take on Microsoft's quarterly report. Otherwise, your comment sounds suspiciously like conversational terrorism, specifically the first item on this list: http://www.vandruff.com/art_converse.html http://www.vandruff.com/art_converse.html
lemma 13y ago
While being able to read a financial statement is a step in understanding a business, I feel this comment needs to be knocked down a few pegs, so... As an actual CFA charterholder, I can tell you any analyst I work with would have laughed out loud at someone bragging about passing level 1. It means you have roughly an undergrad level understanding of finance.
- 300bps 13y ago
  As an actual CFA charterholder, I can tell you any analyst I work with would have laughed out loud at someone bragging about passing level 1 Can you tell me what IT certification tests you have passed? You may have missed the fact that I've been in IT for 20 years, remain in IT and will always be in IT. I'm sure a native Spanish speaker wouldn't be too impressed with my ability to speak Spanish either. But I would hope they would have more class than to "laugh out loud" at a native English speaker putting forth significant effort at learning their language.
  - lemma 13y ago
    Not laughing at the effort, I rather encourage it and congratulate you passing level one. Everyone has to start there obviously. Its the attitude that rubbed everyone the wrong way.
    - deleted 13y ago
      [deleted]
      - shock-value 13y ago
        As far as I know HN doesn't allow downvoting by default (I think you need sufficient posting experience to do so). So having +100 is not in any way a reliable metric of overall opinion towards your comments. For example, I think your attitude and condescension is at best odd and out of place here, and I personally would downvote you if I had the ability.
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    [deleted]
sytelus 13y ago
Great to know you are actually qualified. Can you highlight what point other people have been missing in reading these statements?
bane 13y ago
After reading your comments in this thread, I can see your training doesn't seem to have given you any particularly useful insight into this subject either.

by 300bps 13y ago

ejstronge 13y ago

It sounds like your background might allow you to offer a unique perspective - or at least temper the immediate conclusions a layman might have. What do you think about the importance of this announcement, given your training?

megablast 13y ago

Feel free to offer your unique perspective. But we can still look at this from other avenues.

sbuccini 13y ago

It sounds like you can give some solid insight on this issue. Could you please state your position instead of simply mentioning that other people are unqualified to do so?

300bps 13y ago
It sounds like you can give some solid insight on this issue. No, I can't because I don't follow Microsoft as a stock. The analogy is that while I am able to program in Java, that doesn't mean I'm qualified to evaluate a particular code base written in Java without investing substantial time to research it. The analogy is not perfect of course - since most of the time people writing code aren't purposely trying to obfuscate it like people who write accounting statements are trying to do.
- yesplorer 13y ago
  Your analogy is nonsense and speaks of the pomposity someone earlier mentioned: Microsoft presented only a summary level of revenue statement for a quarter indicating both GAAP and non-GAAP adjusted figures and you are telling us you need time to research to make a contribution here even though you've already said others are not qualified to contribute? By your analogy I will be surprised if I show a 15-line Java Class to a Java programmer and he tells me he needs to research it to make sense of it. By comparison, Microsoft presented a single Java Class [revenue statement] not a codebase[Financial Report] by the way: so far you haven't made any contribution to the discussion even though others have asked you nicely to.
  - bsaul 13y ago
    i suppose the point 300bps is trying to make is that those kind of announcement need a lot of work before you're able to draw any kind of conclusion from it, either positiv or negativ. I only have a very small amount of knowledge in accounting, but i was amazed at how subjective and arbitrary some accounting decision can be, and as a consequence, how you can make profits appear basically anywhere you want to ( on one year).
- countrybama24 13y ago
  Equity analyst here. The people following those companies don't know dick either. And the CFA doesn't give you ANY credentials (certainly not just level I) regarding business strategy. Stop listening to people based on titles and credentials and start evaluating (and critiquing) their arguments. My opinion? Microsoft is expanding revenue but losing it's core business slowly. I think they'll look pretty good for the next couple of years until viable competitors to Office come along. All these other sources of revenue are contingent upon their traction in enterprise, something that's unlikely to change in the short or medium term but when it does will very unpleasant for them.
  - zvrba 13y ago
    > until viable competitors to Office come along I don't think this will happen so soon. OO still looks&feels like from 90-ies, has only basic functionality, and MS Office's data formats are sufficiently complex (and probably also intermingled with implementation details) that I don't see a 100%-compatible importer being developed anytime soon.

clavalle 13y ago

I think much of the HN audience deals with the business side of the house enough to get their bearings on an revenue statement.

nilved 13y ago

This may be the most pompous comment on HN, a forum known for its pompous comments. Congratulations.

300bps 13y ago
This may be the most pompous comment on HN Who is more pompous? The people thinking they are intrinsically expert at financial analysis posting here or the person that points out how silly they sound? Seriously, picture a real financial analyst with no computer background reading your Ruby code and drawing all kinds of nonsensical conclusions from it. You'd probably laugh your head off when they read a comment in the code and thought that it was a functional instruction. That's the type of things developers are doing here with their armchair financial analysis.
- socillion 13y ago
  A similar comment deriding your hypothetical financial analyst would be called pompous if they listed credentials, claimed the analyst was uninformed, then declined to say anything more (assuming other commentators were similarly uninformed). Saying "you're wrong" and leaving it at that isn't very helpful and most people will simply ignore the statement.
- TranquilMarmot 13y ago
  A financial analyst may not be able to critique my code, but he can certainly tell if my program works or not and offer his opinion on how it should work. His take on it is not invalid just because he doesn't know how to program. The same can be said for this- I can look at it as a developer and get a general idea of how Microsoft is doing. I may not know all the intricacies behind it, but that doesn't mean my input should be thrown into the trash.
  - deleted 13y ago
    [deleted]
- netpenthe 13y ago
  just because you're not an 'expert' doesn't mean you shouldn't try... you gotta try to get better at it.

droneStrikes 13y ago

Then I absolutely want to know more about such things. Please do share some or anything you can, regarding, oh... I dunno... whatever sort of insights might escape the ordinary common man, equipped with a high-schooler's grasp of basic integer math. I've heard these sort of claims before, coming from financially oriented colleagues. I hate it when they make these kinds of dismissive pronouncements. The worst thing you could ever do is plainly state that a thing is simply too complicated to be worth explaining. If these arcane statements should be regarded as esoteric hieroglyphics by the uninitiated, at least tell us which one is the sun god? Seriously, we're all pretty curious types around here, and even when the material is bone dry and stale as Soviet bread, we all enjoy learning. At least I know I do.

300bps 13y ago
The worst thing you could ever do is plainly state that a thing is simply too complicated to be worth explaining. After working in finance-related IT for 16 years, I signed up for the Level 1 CFA exam to take it in December of 2009. I've been in IT for 20 years but I thought, "How hard could this be?" I found out. I ended up studying for over 350 hours and was thankfully one of the 33% of people that passed the test when I took it. 67% of people that took the test failed it. So I ask you - how much of those 350 hours of studying do you think I can squeeze in a Hacker News comment? Do you think you could teach a financial analyst how to analyze Java code in a Hacker News comment? Would you take the time to even try?
- iamleppert 13y ago
  That still doesn't change the fact you have contributed absolutely nothing to this conversation. Your comments should would be marked as flame-bait, or not informative on old slashdot.
  - deleted 13y ago
    [deleted]
    - iamleppert 13y ago

deleted 13y ago

[deleted]

deleted 13y ago

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r00fus 13y ago

Demonstrate, don't declare. So please, leverage some of that CFA knowledge and give us your take on Microsoft's quarterly report. Otherwise, your comment sounds suspiciously like conversational terrorism, specifically the first item on this list: http://www.vandruff.com/art_converse.html http://www.vandruff.com/art_converse.html

lemma 13y ago

While being able to read a financial statement is a step in understanding a business, I feel this comment needs to be knocked down a few pegs, so... As an actual CFA charterholder, I can tell you any analyst I work with would have laughed out loud at someone bragging about passing level 1. It means you have roughly an undergrad level understanding of finance.

300bps 13y ago
As an actual CFA charterholder, I can tell you any analyst I work with would have laughed out loud at someone bragging about passing level 1 Can you tell me what IT certification tests you have passed? You may have missed the fact that I've been in IT for 20 years, remain in IT and will always be in IT. I'm sure a native Spanish speaker wouldn't be too impressed with my ability to speak Spanish either. But I would hope they would have more class than to "laugh out loud" at a native English speaker putting forth significant effort at learning their language.
- lemma 13y ago
  Not laughing at the effort, I rather encourage it and congratulate you passing level one. Everyone has to start there obviously. Its the attitude that rubbed everyone the wrong way.
  - deleted 13y ago
    [deleted]
    - shock-value 13y ago
      As far as I know HN doesn't allow downvoting by default (I think you need sufficient posting experience to do so). So having +100 is not in any way a reliable metric of overall opinion towards your comments. For example, I think your attitude and condescension is at best odd and out of place here, and I personally would downvote you if I had the ability.
- deleted 13y ago
  [deleted]

sytelus 13y ago

Great to know you are actually qualified. Can you highlight what point other people have been missing in reading these statements?

bane 13y ago

After reading your comments in this thread, I can see your training doesn't seem to have given you any particularly useful insight into this subject either.