3 ms·

Arguments are Overrated

3 points by byrneseyeview 17y ago

grandalf 17y ago
To me calling it an argument implies that there could be a winner. Arguing is not just two people shouting their own opinion repeatedly, it's a reasoned process of establishing a universe of discourse and then evaluating propositions in that universe for validity and truth. Anyone entering an argument should wish that one participant leave the argument with his/her opinion changed. A rational participant would not be biased about whether he or his opponent ought to be the one to change. Arguably, the beneficiary is the one who does change his/her opinion, since he/she is the one who has gained rationality as a result of participating in the argument. I think the blog post mostly critiques bombast and verbal swagger. Nobody who truly enjoys argument enjoys such things. Much of human verbal communication uses what I'd call an argumentative trope but does not actually constitute reasoned argument. I think the author of the post confuses argument with argumentativeness.
- DanielBMarkham 17y ago
  "Arguably, the beneficiary is the one who does change his/her opinion, since he/she is the one who has gained rationality as a result of participating in the argument." This is a great comment about an awful post. Arguments are about the process of finding self-bias. People see things on TV, or their only knowledge of arguing is when they're a teenager and they have to "score points". They have no idea what rational discourse is about. There's a long history of reasoned debate being used, sometimes at length (Lincoln-Douglas) to determine policy. Most people are emotional thinkers and use rationality to justify, sure. But that's all the more reason to engage in debate with your fellow man: it takes somebody else to untangle the mess you've made out of your reasoning. If we all just throw our hands up and say that debate is pointless, we're giving up our one chance of changing our programming and working and thinking in a truly free manner.
  - grandalf 17y ago
    extremely well said!

3 points by byrneseyeview 17y ago

To me calling it an argument implies that there could be a winner. Arguing is not just two people shouting their own opinion repeatedly, it's a reasoned process of establishing a universe of discourse and then evaluating propositions in that universe for validity and truth. Anyone entering an argument should wish that one participant leave the argument with his/her opinion changed. A rational participant would not be biased about whether he or his opponent ought to be the one to change. Arguably, the beneficiary is the one who does change his/her opinion, since he/she is the one who has gained rationality as a result of participating in the argument. I think the blog post mostly critiques bombast and verbal swagger. Nobody who truly enjoys argument enjoys such things. Much of human verbal communication uses what I'd call an argumentative trope but does not actually constitute reasoned argument. I think the author of the post confuses argument with argumentativeness.

DanielBMarkham 17y ago
"Arguably, the beneficiary is the one who does change his/her opinion, since he/she is the one who has gained rationality as a result of participating in the argument." This is a great comment about an awful post. Arguments are about the process of finding self-bias. People see things on TV, or their only knowledge of arguing is when they're a teenager and they have to "score points". They have no idea what rational discourse is about. There's a long history of reasoned debate being used, sometimes at length (Lincoln-Douglas) to determine policy. Most people are emotional thinkers and use rationality to justify, sure. But that's all the more reason to engage in debate with your fellow man: it takes somebody else to untangle the mess you've made out of your reasoning. If we all just throw our hands up and say that debate is pointless, we're giving up our one chance of changing our programming and working and thinking in a truly free manner.
- grandalf 17y ago
  extremely well said!