5 ms·

> "Fuel prices, like food prices, disproportionately hit the poor, so do-gooders do everything they can to raise energy costs..." Way to put words in peoples'

> "Fuel prices, like food prices, disproportionately hit the poor, so do-gooders do everything they can to raise energy costs..." Way to put words in peoples' mouths. Political activists on all sides of all debates are doing what they can to help people (in the odd case of anti-immigration politics, to help "our" people) - Specifically for food and energy, this is to make people healthier (which makes them more likely to be happier) and to prevent climate change (which makes all our grandchildren happier.) While the political ideas they come up with may be naive, and not do the intended thing, this does not make your political opponents malicious. Sadly, people will never stop making these kinds of straw man arguments - people fall for them because of confirmation bias. I weep for political truth.

nickff 13y ago
There is no straw man here, as the article says the "do-gooders do everything they can to raise energy costs"; the article does NOT say 'do-gooders try to raise energy costs' or 'do-gooders want to raise energy costs', which would indeed be a straw man. The article is arguing that the "do-gooders" raise the price of energy, which has a disproportionately negative impact on the poor; it does not say anything about their motives. If you disagree with the argument, you should refute it with evidence.
- tehwalrus 13y ago
  the idiom "do everything [one] can to..." clearly means both "try to" and "want to". Indeed, even if you get rid of the hyperbolic "everything [one] can to", you're left with just "do", which is a superset of "try to" (although not "want to").
  - nickff 13y ago
    'do' is not a superset of 'try', unless every outcome was desired from the outset. e.g. I 'do' create software bugs, but I to neither 'try to' nor 'want to' create software bugs.
    - tehwalrus 13y ago
      True, apologies, but my main point about the idiom still stands - it means to strive for, which means both wanting and trying.

nickff 13y ago

There is no straw man here, as the article says the "do-gooders do everything they can to raise energy costs"; the article does NOT say 'do-gooders try to raise energy costs' or 'do-gooders want to raise energy costs', which would indeed be a straw man. The article is arguing that the "do-gooders" raise the price of energy, which has a disproportionately negative impact on the poor; it does not say anything about their motives. If you disagree with the argument, you should refute it with evidence.

tehwalrus 13y ago
the idiom "do everything [one] can to..." clearly means both "try to" and "want to". Indeed, even if you get rid of the hyperbolic "everything [one] can to", you're left with just "do", which is a superset of "try to" (although not "want to").
- nickff 13y ago
  'do' is not a superset of 'try', unless every outcome was desired from the outset. e.g. I 'do' create software bugs, but I to neither 'try to' nor 'want to' create software bugs.
  - tehwalrus 13y ago
    True, apologies, but my main point about the idiom still stands - it means to strive for, which means both wanting and trying.