4 ms·

The greatest food in human history

19 points by Aloha 13y ago

cmollis 13y ago
the best comment in there is that fruits and vegetables are becoming luxury items. awesome.
sam66 13y ago
crap article from a crappy source, such a vomit inducing propaganda, I feel so angry I clicked it and read that, I want my lost time back.
drill_sarge 13y ago
>For the average poor person, it isn’t a great option to take a trip to the farmers market to puzzle over esoteric lefty-foodie codes. lol
tehwalrus 13y ago
> "Fuel prices, like food prices, disproportionately hit the poor, so do-gooders do everything they can to raise energy costs..." Way to put words in peoples' mouths. Political activists on all sides of all debates are doing what they can to help people (in the odd case of anti-immigration politics, to help "our" people) - Specifically for food and energy, this is to make people healthier (which makes them more likely to be happier) and to prevent climate change (which makes all our grandchildren happier.) While the political ideas they come up with may be naive, and not do the intended thing, this does not make your political opponents malicious. Sadly, people will never stop making these kinds of straw man arguments - people fall for them because of confirmation bias. I weep for political truth.
- nickff 13y ago
  There is no straw man here, as the article says the "do-gooders do everything they can to raise energy costs"; the article does NOT say 'do-gooders try to raise energy costs' or 'do-gooders want to raise energy costs', which would indeed be a straw man. The article is arguing that the "do-gooders" raise the price of energy, which has a disproportionately negative impact on the poor; it does not say anything about their motives. If you disagree with the argument, you should refute it with evidence.
  - tehwalrus 13y ago
    the idiom "do everything [one] can to..." clearly means both "try to" and "want to". Indeed, even if you get rid of the hyperbolic "everything [one] can to", you're left with just "do", which is a superset of "try to" (although not "want to").
    - nickff 13y ago
      'do' is not a superset of 'try', unless every outcome was desired from the outset. e.g. I 'do' create software bugs, but I to neither 'try to' nor 'want to' create software bugs.
      - tehwalrus 13y ago
        True, apologies, but my main point about the idiom still stands - it means to strive for, which means both wanting and trying.
potatolicious 13y ago
FWIW I flagged this. The notion of the McDouble as the "greatest food in history" is interesting and worth discussing. The cost of food for the poor, as well as the enormous price gap between healthy and unhealthy foods, is worth discussing - and is frequently discussed on HN. This screed by the NYPost on the other hand, is not. The NYPost is a joke of a publication here in NYC and is regarded as more tabloid than newspaper, even by staunch WSJ conservatives.
everyone 13y ago
Ridiculous. Written no doubt, for shock value rather than even the pretense of serious discourse.
Pitarou 13y ago
I tend to agree with much of what is said, at least when I'm in a harshly utilitarian, Malthusian mood: if you want to know what locavorism really means, try buying fresh fruit and vegetables in Japan, where foreign farm produce is taxed of the shelves. But the fact remains that the Anglo-Saxon food culture sucks, and those cheap cheeseburgers are indirectly subsidised by food-stamps and Medicaid for the workforce.
Mikeb85 13y ago
Another terrible part of the story: >Junk food costs as little as $1.76 per 1,000 calories, whereas fresh veggies and the like cost more than 10 times as much, found a 2007 University of Washington survey for the Journal of the American Dietetic Association. A 2,000-calorie day of meals would, if you stuck strictly to the good-for-you stuff, cost $36.32, said the study’s lead author, Adam Drewnowski. < This is rediculous. You can buy fruits, veggies and other good-for-you thinks for much, much less. You just need to learn how to cook half-decent. Lentils, Chickpeas, rice, flour, and other human diet staples (for the last 6000 years) are dirt cheap. Onions, garlic, carrots, cabbage, potatoes, squash, some greens, beets, and other staple veggies are also very cheap. Fruits can be equally cheap in season (around here peaches get down to a dollar per pound in season), though in winter imported fruits are expensive. Yogurt is a great staple source for dairy and protein, and can be cheap. Meats and fish are more expensive, but again, if you buy less desirable cuts of meat and sustainable fish in season, can be had for a decent price. But people's eating habits have become silly. We eat too much meat, too many poor-quality carbs (white bread, white flour pasta), and too little fibre. And people spend stupid amounts of money on trendy nonsense (at a local farmers market I saw a lady selling tiny bags of 'gluten-free' rice for $10 dollars). Want to eat healthy? Grab a few cookbooks about traditional cuisines... Traditional grains, pulses, with lots of veggies and a little meat/fish and you're good to go.
- innguest 13y ago
  Want to be rich? Make healthy food as easy to eat and as tasty as junk food. It seems no one is working on that.
  - Mikeb85 13y ago
    My first career was in the food industry, as a chef (and later a pastry chef). I was fairly successful (relative to expectations within the industry), however there are some major issues with the industry. First of all, food related businesses have high startup costs, high maintenance costs, low margins, and don't scale well. There's many incumbants, tastes are localized, sourcing produce can be a nightmare (if you want good produce), and every market is different. And because of the low margins, wages are low, the workforce is uneducated, and then you have to deal with things like high turnover and theft. Which is why most people in the food industry are sociopaths. Anyhow, there is already fairly healthy, tasty fast food out there already, things like shawarma, falafel, some tacos, and most 'traditional' ethnic snacks.
gdilla 13y ago
MCDs actually killed the dollar menu recently http://www.theatlanticcities.com/jobs-and-economy/2013/10/why-mcdonalds-killed-dollar-menu-1-chart/7323/ http://www.theatlanticcities.com/jobs-and-economy/2013/10/wh...

19 points by Aloha 13y ago

the best comment in there is that fruits and vegetables are becoming luxury items. awesome.

sam66 13y ago

crap article from a crappy source, such a vomit inducing propaganda, I feel so angry I clicked it and read that, I want my lost time back.

drill_sarge 13y ago

>For the average poor person, it isn’t a great option to take a trip to the farmers market to puzzle over esoteric lefty-foodie codes. lol

tehwalrus 13y ago

> "Fuel prices, like food prices, disproportionately hit the poor, so do-gooders do everything they can to raise energy costs..." Way to put words in peoples' mouths. Political activists on all sides of all debates are doing what they can to help people (in the odd case of anti-immigration politics, to help "our" people) - Specifically for food and energy, this is to make people healthier (which makes them more likely to be happier) and to prevent climate change (which makes all our grandchildren happier.) While the political ideas they come up with may be naive, and not do the intended thing, this does not make your political opponents malicious. Sadly, people will never stop making these kinds of straw man arguments - people fall for them because of confirmation bias. I weep for political truth.

nickff 13y ago
There is no straw man here, as the article says the "do-gooders do everything they can to raise energy costs"; the article does NOT say 'do-gooders try to raise energy costs' or 'do-gooders want to raise energy costs', which would indeed be a straw man. The article is arguing that the "do-gooders" raise the price of energy, which has a disproportionately negative impact on the poor; it does not say anything about their motives. If you disagree with the argument, you should refute it with evidence.
- tehwalrus 13y ago
  the idiom "do everything [one] can to..." clearly means both "try to" and "want to". Indeed, even if you get rid of the hyperbolic "everything [one] can to", you're left with just "do", which is a superset of "try to" (although not "want to").
  - nickff 13y ago
    'do' is not a superset of 'try', unless every outcome was desired from the outset. e.g. I 'do' create software bugs, but I to neither 'try to' nor 'want to' create software bugs.
    - tehwalrus 13y ago
      True, apologies, but my main point about the idiom still stands - it means to strive for, which means both wanting and trying.

potatolicious 13y ago

FWIW I flagged this. The notion of the McDouble as the "greatest food in history" is interesting and worth discussing. The cost of food for the poor, as well as the enormous price gap between healthy and unhealthy foods, is worth discussing - and is frequently discussed on HN. This screed by the NYPost on the other hand, is not. The NYPost is a joke of a publication here in NYC and is regarded as more tabloid than newspaper, even by staunch WSJ conservatives.

everyone 13y ago

Ridiculous. Written no doubt, for shock value rather than even the pretense of serious discourse.

Pitarou 13y ago

I tend to agree with much of what is said, at least when I'm in a harshly utilitarian, Malthusian mood: if you want to know what locavorism really means, try buying fresh fruit and vegetables in Japan, where foreign farm produce is taxed of the shelves. But the fact remains that the Anglo-Saxon food culture sucks, and those cheap cheeseburgers are indirectly subsidised by food-stamps and Medicaid for the workforce.

Mikeb85 13y ago

Another terrible part of the story: >Junk food costs as little as $1.76 per 1,000 calories, whereas fresh veggies and the like cost more than 10 times as much, found a 2007 University of Washington survey for the Journal of the American Dietetic Association. A 2,000-calorie day of meals would, if you stuck strictly to the good-for-you stuff, cost $36.32, said the study’s lead author, Adam Drewnowski. < This is rediculous. You can buy fruits, veggies and other good-for-you thinks for much, much less. You just need to learn how to cook half-decent. Lentils, Chickpeas, rice, flour, and other human diet staples (for the last 6000 years) are dirt cheap. Onions, garlic, carrots, cabbage, potatoes, squash, some greens, beets, and other staple veggies are also very cheap. Fruits can be equally cheap in season (around here peaches get down to a dollar per pound in season), though in winter imported fruits are expensive. Yogurt is a great staple source for dairy and protein, and can be cheap. Meats and fish are more expensive, but again, if you buy less desirable cuts of meat and sustainable fish in season, can be had for a decent price. But people's eating habits have become silly. We eat too much meat, too many poor-quality carbs (white bread, white flour pasta), and too little fibre. And people spend stupid amounts of money on trendy nonsense (at a local farmers market I saw a lady selling tiny bags of 'gluten-free' rice for $10 dollars). Want to eat healthy? Grab a few cookbooks about traditional cuisines... Traditional grains, pulses, with lots of veggies and a little meat/fish and you're good to go.

innguest 13y ago
Want to be rich? Make healthy food as easy to eat and as tasty as junk food. It seems no one is working on that.
- Mikeb85 13y ago
  My first career was in the food industry, as a chef (and later a pastry chef). I was fairly successful (relative to expectations within the industry), however there are some major issues with the industry. First of all, food related businesses have high startup costs, high maintenance costs, low margins, and don't scale well. There's many incumbants, tastes are localized, sourcing produce can be a nightmare (if you want good produce), and every market is different. And because of the low margins, wages are low, the workforce is uneducated, and then you have to deal with things like high turnover and theft. Which is why most people in the food industry are sociopaths. Anyhow, there is already fairly healthy, tasty fast food out there already, things like shawarma, falafel, some tacos, and most 'traditional' ethnic snacks.

gdilla 13y ago

MCDs actually killed the dollar menu recently http://www.theatlanticcities.com/jobs-and-economy/2013/10/why-mcdonalds-killed-dollar-menu-1-chart/7323/ http://www.theatlanticcities.com/jobs-and-economy/2013/10/wh...