12 ms·

Maybe the pedestrians could you know, learn how to judge the speed of moving objects?! Plenty of couriers would be pedaling around on fixies at 20mph or more an

by ollysb 13y ago

Maybe the pedestrians could you know, learn how to judge the speed of moving objects?! Plenty of couriers would be pedaling around on fixies at 20mph or more anyway so I'm not really sure where the distinction lies.

ck2 13y ago
What's interesting is it not just illegal in NYC, it is illegal in the entire state of New York. I can kinda see where it might be a problem in NYC because it is really easy to overvolt electric bikes, a 20-25mph model can become a 30+ mph flying machine that never gets tired. But why not allow electric assisted 3-wheel vending carts? Or electric 3-wheel taxis.
buro9 13y ago
I use bright (static, non-flashing) lights for this reason. It's not that people cannot judge speed, but there seems to be an uncertainty principle at play that is created by the assumptions of the person. The key assumption is: "It's a bicycle and therefore moving at barely above walking speed.". So the 50ms glance is not repeated and no actual attempt is made to assess the speed (and direction - must be the predictable one parallel to the road!) of the cyclist. Using lights changes this. By making oneself more visible, even in bright daylight, to the point that the light catches the attention. Then the person looking will look for a longer period of time and get a sense of speed and direction. It's important not to use flashing lights as people tend to be crap at determining your location accurately and that throws off any calculation about speed and direction. As a cyclist the effect is very noticeable. Cars no longer pull out from side roads in my line of travel, and pedestrians wait where they previously would've thrown themselves into the road. I don't see why NY couldn't just mandate that all electric-assist bicycles be fitted with non-flashing lamps that must be permanently lit whilst the electric assist is activated.
- stcredzero 13y ago
  > The key assumption is: "It's a bicycle and therefore moving at barely above walking speed.". It is possible to, you know, perceive speed. It happens when people hit and catch balls in sports. This is a criticism of people, not your idea. What does the data say, I wonder? All I've seen here on HN are anecdotes. There is research supporting lights aiding visibility in cars. Are there numbers for the increased risk with electric bikes?
  - ufo 13y ago
    Speed perception in humans is notoriously bugged though.
falcolas 13y ago
If only it were that easy. Look up "smidsy" (Sorry mate, I didn't see you), and see how big of a problem this is for people in cars versus motorcycles as well. The problem isn't that people don't know how to judge speed, it's that judging the speed of something moving directly at you is very hard. The size of the object doesn't change until it's pretty much right upon you, and the cyclists tend to blend into chaotic backgrounds, making them nearly invisible. Having something that doesn't move as you expect it to makes it even harder.

by ollysb 13y ago

ck2 13y ago

What's interesting is it not just illegal in NYC, it is illegal in the entire state of New York. I can kinda see where it might be a problem in NYC because it is really easy to overvolt electric bikes, a 20-25mph model can become a 30+ mph flying machine that never gets tired. But why not allow electric assisted 3-wheel vending carts? Or electric 3-wheel taxis.

buro9 13y ago

I use bright (static, non-flashing) lights for this reason. It's not that people cannot judge speed, but there seems to be an uncertainty principle at play that is created by the assumptions of the person. The key assumption is: "It's a bicycle and therefore moving at barely above walking speed.". So the 50ms glance is not repeated and no actual attempt is made to assess the speed (and direction - must be the predictable one parallel to the road!) of the cyclist. Using lights changes this. By making oneself more visible, even in bright daylight, to the point that the light catches the attention. Then the person looking will look for a longer period of time and get a sense of speed and direction. It's important not to use flashing lights as people tend to be crap at determining your location accurately and that throws off any calculation about speed and direction. As a cyclist the effect is very noticeable. Cars no longer pull out from side roads in my line of travel, and pedestrians wait where they previously would've thrown themselves into the road. I don't see why NY couldn't just mandate that all electric-assist bicycles be fitted with non-flashing lamps that must be permanently lit whilst the electric assist is activated.

stcredzero 13y ago
> The key assumption is: "It's a bicycle and therefore moving at barely above walking speed.". It is possible to, you know, perceive speed. It happens when people hit and catch balls in sports. This is a criticism of people, not your idea. What does the data say, I wonder? All I've seen here on HN are anecdotes. There is research supporting lights aiding visibility in cars. Are there numbers for the increased risk with electric bikes?
- ufo 13y ago
  Speed perception in humans is notoriously bugged though.

falcolas 13y ago

If only it were that easy. Look up "smidsy" (Sorry mate, I didn't see you), and see how big of a problem this is for people in cars versus motorcycles as well. The problem isn't that people don't know how to judge speed, it's that judging the speed of something moving directly at you is very hard. The size of the object doesn't change until it's pretty much right upon you, and the cyclists tend to blend into chaotic backgrounds, making them nearly invisible. Having something that doesn't move as you expect it to makes it even harder.