5 ms·

An interesting point of view I found via Google: http://www.esva.net/~thom/philkatz.html http://www.esva.net/~thom/philkatz.html

Amadou 13y ago
Wow, I had no idea the ARC source was open. IIRC, at the time PKARC and PKZIP were legendary, and the Sea guys got a bad rep from the whole situation. But reading that post and the ARC license now, it sure does look like Katz was a putz.
- a1k0n 13y ago
  Exec-PC (huge BBS based in Milwaukee, WI) was full of anti-SEA propaganda in those days, which was just bizarre and I didn't understand why at the time. I also didn't realize the code was open. If only we had github in BBS form in the 90s.
  - micro-ram 13y ago
    Using PC Pursuit to packet switch your way to Milwaukee without a long-distance phone call.
- justin66 13y ago
  > Wow, I had no idea the ARC source was open. Of course, the ARC source wasn't really "open" in the sense we use the term today. Hence SEA's ability to file a lawsuit against Katz. On the other hand, the .zip file format really was open in the sense we use the term today.
Stratoscope 13y ago
> So now Phil Katz is dead. He drank himself to death, alone in a motel room, a bottle of booze in his hand and five empties in the room. One can only guess what drove him to such a tragic end, but it is a fitting demise for a man whose professional reputation is based entirely on a lie. > I can think of no more fitting epitath than the final clause of the original ARC copyright statement: > "If you fail to abide by the terms of this license, then your conscience will haunt you for the rest of your life." What a stunningly vindictive and spiteful thing to say. This is the very first time I've ever heard anyone say "he deserved to die because he stole my code." (Don't worry, I'm not shooting the messenger! I appreciate your posting this - it's a fascinating look at human nature.)
- codezero 13y ago
  Putting this in to context, at the time Thom had to basically go under the radar because of all the hate mail and threats he got because of the ARC / PKWare legal battle, supposedly these email threats were prompted in part by Phil himself. It definitely doesn't make it OK to say "this person deserved to die," but I think it's worth considering it in context, as these people weren't strangers to each other and their actions both had powerful effects on one another.
  - Stratoscope 13y ago
    That does add a lot of context! Thanks for mentioning it. What a bad situation all around.
- RickHull 13y ago
  I'm honestly not sure how you can equivocate a haunted conscience with death.
  - Stratoscope 13y ago
    It wasn't that part that struck me - obviously he wrote the copyright statement long before. What bothered me was "...it is a fitting demise...".
    - mcguire 13y ago
      "no more fitting epitaph" != "a fitting demise"
      - Stratoscope 13y ago
        I didn't confuse those two phrases. "a fitting demise" is a direct quote: > One can only guess what drove him to such a tragic end, but it is a fitting demise for a man whose professional reputation is based entirely on a lie. (emphasis added)
  - acjohnson55 13y ago
chebucto 13y ago
This: "In a negotiated settlement he again rejected any suggestion of licensing and went for a cash-out settlement. He repaid us for most of our legal bills and promised to stop selling his program sometime in 1988. Then he fiddled with the file format a bit, renamed it from PKARC to PKZIP, and kept right on selling it. " is contradicted by this: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phil_Katz https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phil_Katz "... settlement of the lawsuit ... under which ... PKWARE paid SEA to obtain a license that allowed the distribution of PKWARE's ARC-compatible programs until January 31, 1989, after which PKWARE would not license, publish or distribute any ARC compatible programs or utilities that process ARC compatible files. ... After the lawsuit, PKWARE released one last version of his PKARC and PKXARC utilities under the new names "PKPAK" and "PKUNPAK", and from then on concentrated on developing the separate programs PKZIP and PKUNZIP, which were based on new and different file compression techniques." Wiki also says "The SEA vs. PKWARE dispute quickly expanded into one of the largest controversies the BBS world ever saw." Any greybeards care to comment?
- micro-ram 13y ago
  I didn't care about the controversy I just remember re-packing all of my files in .zip to save more space on my BBS. Unfreezing...Melting....OOOO00000oooooo........
  - fleitz 13y ago
    That reminds me of ARJ, I have no memory of why, but I was a much bigger fan of ARJ than zip.
    - reidrac 13y ago
      Me too. ARJ was easier to use IIRC, specially with muli-volume archives (frequent if you had to split an archive into several diskettes). I used ARJ mostly, until RAR came in, of course ;)
  - Sami_Lehtinen 13y ago
    Did someone forget LHA / LZH?
mansam 13y ago
In the event that anyone happens to be interested in knowing more about the conflict between SEA and PKWARE, here's a pretty solid collection of notes and BBS postings. http://www.bbsdocumentary.com/library/CONTROVERSY/LAWSUITS/SEA/ http://www.bbsdocumentary.com/library/CONTROVERSY/LAWSUITS/S...
rangibaby 13y ago
> I know that seems strange these days, but back then a lot of software was distributed in source What is old is new again
- justin66 13y ago
  You know what's peculiar? Thom Henderson wrote that after Katz's death in 2000. At what point in the last thirteen years would anyone think that distributing source code is strange?
  - lmm 13y ago
    You must not have been there. Back when windows was the only OS that mattered, the way you distributed software was as windows binaries. Most users didn't even have a compiler.

Amadou 13y ago

Wow, I had no idea the ARC source was open. IIRC, at the time PKARC and PKZIP were legendary, and the Sea guys got a bad rep from the whole situation. But reading that post and the ARC license now, it sure does look like Katz was a putz.

a1k0n 13y ago
Exec-PC (huge BBS based in Milwaukee, WI) was full of anti-SEA propaganda in those days, which was just bizarre and I didn't understand why at the time. I also didn't realize the code was open. If only we had github in BBS form in the 90s.
- micro-ram 13y ago
  Using PC Pursuit to packet switch your way to Milwaukee without a long-distance phone call.
justin66 13y ago
> Wow, I had no idea the ARC source was open. Of course, the ARC source wasn't really "open" in the sense we use the term today. Hence SEA's ability to file a lawsuit against Katz. On the other hand, the .zip file format really was open in the sense we use the term today.

Stratoscope 13y ago

> So now Phil Katz is dead. He drank himself to death, alone in a motel room, a bottle of booze in his hand and five empties in the room. One can only guess what drove him to such a tragic end, but it is a fitting demise for a man whose professional reputation is based entirely on a lie. > I can think of no more fitting epitath than the final clause of the original ARC copyright statement: > "If you fail to abide by the terms of this license, then your conscience will haunt you for the rest of your life." What a stunningly vindictive and spiteful thing to say. This is the very first time I've ever heard anyone say "he deserved to die because he stole my code." (Don't worry, I'm not shooting the messenger! I appreciate your posting this - it's a fascinating look at human nature.)

codezero 13y ago
Putting this in to context, at the time Thom had to basically go under the radar because of all the hate mail and threats he got because of the ARC / PKWare legal battle, supposedly these email threats were prompted in part by Phil himself. It definitely doesn't make it OK to say "this person deserved to die," but I think it's worth considering it in context, as these people weren't strangers to each other and their actions both had powerful effects on one another.
- Stratoscope 13y ago
  That does add a lot of context! Thanks for mentioning it. What a bad situation all around.
RickHull 13y ago
I'm honestly not sure how you can equivocate a haunted conscience with death.
- Stratoscope 13y ago
  It wasn't that part that struck me - obviously he wrote the copyright statement long before. What bothered me was "...it is a fitting demise...".
  - mcguire 13y ago
    "no more fitting epitaph" != "a fitting demise"
    - Stratoscope 13y ago
      I didn't confuse those two phrases. "a fitting demise" is a direct quote: > One can only guess what drove him to such a tragic end, but it is a fitting demise for a man whose professional reputation is based entirely on a lie. (emphasis added)
- acjohnson55 13y ago

chebucto 13y ago

This: "In a negotiated settlement he again rejected any suggestion of licensing and went for a cash-out settlement. He repaid us for most of our legal bills and promised to stop selling his program sometime in 1988. Then he fiddled with the file format a bit, renamed it from PKARC to PKZIP, and kept right on selling it. " is contradicted by this: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phil_Katz https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phil_Katz "... settlement of the lawsuit ... under which ... PKWARE paid SEA to obtain a license that allowed the distribution of PKWARE's ARC-compatible programs until January 31, 1989, after which PKWARE would not license, publish or distribute any ARC compatible programs or utilities that process ARC compatible files. ... After the lawsuit, PKWARE released one last version of his PKARC and PKXARC utilities under the new names "PKPAK" and "PKUNPAK", and from then on concentrated on developing the separate programs PKZIP and PKUNZIP, which were based on new and different file compression techniques." Wiki also says "The SEA vs. PKWARE dispute quickly expanded into one of the largest controversies the BBS world ever saw." Any greybeards care to comment?

micro-ram 13y ago
I didn't care about the controversy I just remember re-packing all of my files in .zip to save more space on my BBS. Unfreezing...Melting....OOOO00000oooooo........
- fleitz 13y ago
  That reminds me of ARJ, I have no memory of why, but I was a much bigger fan of ARJ than zip.
  - reidrac 13y ago
    Me too. ARJ was easier to use IIRC, specially with muli-volume archives (frequent if you had to split an archive into several diskettes). I used ARJ mostly, until RAR came in, of course ;)
- Sami_Lehtinen 13y ago
  Did someone forget LHA / LZH?

mansam 13y ago

In the event that anyone happens to be interested in knowing more about the conflict between SEA and PKWARE, here's a pretty solid collection of notes and BBS postings. http://www.bbsdocumentary.com/library/CONTROVERSY/LAWSUITS/SEA/ http://www.bbsdocumentary.com/library/CONTROVERSY/LAWSUITS/S...

rangibaby 13y ago

> I know that seems strange these days, but back then a lot of software was distributed in source What is old is new again

justin66 13y ago
You know what's peculiar? Thom Henderson wrote that after Katz's death in 2000. At what point in the last thirteen years would anyone think that distributing source code is strange?
- lmm 13y ago
  You must not have been there. Back when windows was the only OS that mattered, the way you distributed software was as windows binaries. Most users didn't even have a compiler.