10 ms·

JFK’s teen mistress addresses relationship in memoir (2012)

• pg 13y ago
  This may seem like mere gossip but actually it's an interesting data point, not just about JFK but about how things were in the US in the 1960s.
  • gohrt 13y ago
    > how things were in the US in the 1960s. Less different from the 1990s (or 1890s, or 1490s in Europe) then one may have previously guessed.
    • 31reasons 13y ago
      It seems Time Dilation occurs much more rapidly as you travel vertically to power hierarchy than in physics!
  • j_s 13y ago
    > how things were in the US in the 1960s Ylvis - The Sixties http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p5F9_7XyaQQ http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p5F9_7XyaQQ
  • quesera 13y ago
    Maybe, but this rates as the most prurient gossip I've read (on HN or anywhere else, but I filter my input channels carefully) in recent memory.
  • cafard 13y ago
    I can't see that, unless you mean the complicity of the press in keeping this stuff quiet.
• tptacek 13y ago
  Noah's take on this story seems about right: http://www.newrepublic.com/blog/timothy-noah/100566/jfk-monster http://www.newrepublic.com/blog/timothy-noah/100566/jfk-mons...
  • rayiner 13y ago
    Its not sexual abuse when you're either the President or in Hollywood.
    • cbsmith 13y ago
      Just out of curiosity, is it ever possible for two people at different levels in the same workplace's hierarchy to engage in sexual relations without it being sexual abuse?
      • RyJones 13y ago
        Ask Melinda Gates.
      • n09n 13y ago
        Yes, of course. But only they would ever know that. It's impossible is for that to happen in a way such that outside observers can be sure it's not sexual abuse.
        • WalterSear 13y ago
          Schrödinger's pussy.
      • rayiner 13y ago
        I'm not using the phrase "sexual abuse" in a flippant way here. Workplace power dynamics can make sexual relationships improper, but rarely rise to the level of abuse. But this story is classic sexual abuse. It's about using your power to humiliate someone. It's the kind of thing that a pimp would do to a prostitute. It reminded me of a recent Israeli art film about a woman whose boyfriend abuses her in this way. I can't for the life of me remember what it's called...
  • trothoun 13y ago
    That puts a whole new light on the line, "the world's most human wasn't human at all." https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K7y2xPucnAo#t=125 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K7y2xPucnAo#t=125
• gavanwoolery 13y ago
  I hate to say it, but quite a few US presidents have a psychological profile that closely, if not entirely, fits that of a socio/psychopath -- in fact, these traits are invaluable when you are running for president (having this condition, as pop culture likes to hint, does not make you a murderer necessarily). A sociopath is risk-adverse, does not take responsibility or feel guilty, and often is outwardly charming. These days more than ever, a president is required to "look the other way" or remain "blissfully ignorant" when the biggest lobbyists secure major contracts, enact laws that benefit them, or sidestep laws that don't. As a side note, both of my parents are psychiatrists who have dealt with every variety (including the criminally insane) - this does not in the least make me an expert, but they did teach me a lot (for my own safety) about spotting these types of disorders.
  • tedivm 13y ago
    I don't know if this qualifies as sociopathy at all. On the contrary, he seemed like someone desperate for an emotional connection.
    • gavanwoolery 13y ago
      You could be quite right - there is no true way to tell without looking over a long, accurate history of their behavior. However, this would be my "best guess" if I were placing a bet. Something in your head has to be a little bit differently wired to have an affair when you hold the most esteemed political position and the entire world is watching your every move (or trying to).
      • deleted 13y ago
        [deleted]
      • toasterlovin 13y ago
        "Something in your head has to be a little bit differently wired to have an affair when you hold the most esteemed political position and the entire world is watching your every move (or trying to)." Or maybe the reason some males seek an "esteemed political position" is so that they can have access to more sexual partners...
• DanielBMarkham 13y ago
  One of the terrible things about Nixon's presidency was that when he got caught in Watergate, presidents stopped taping all their Oval Office conversations. We are losing a generation of precious history. Nowadays, if you're anywhere national public office, you don't leave a paper trail and there are no smoking guns. Teams of lawyers followed Bill Clinton around getting affidavits from anybody that might have a chance of releasing anything salacious. That's a shame, because presidents are all too human -- warts and all. In my mind JFK was a sexual predator and junkie, but it's better for history that we know the truth. Instead I fear that all we're going to get from 1975 onward is a plastic version of the people who occupied the office. ADD: One point of interest about this particular U.S. President: Mimi Alford's story is nowhere near being unique. If anything, hers is a tame version of JFK's lifestyle. Dont' forget that Marilyn Monroe was a mistress, as were many other people. I've seen estimates of his sexual conquests that number in the hundreds. Then there's the drug use, including IV drugs administered in the White House by "Dr. Feelgood". If anything, JFK's story reinforces for me the great amount of latitude we can have in a president without fearing that the world is going to blow up.
  • srl 13y ago
    > If anything, JFK's story reinforces for me the great amount of latitude we can have in a president without fearing that the world is going to blow up. For me, it underlines a stronger message, since JFK is widely considered to be one of our better presidents, and I personally rank him as one of the two or three best. It seems that how good of a person someone is, is not a good indicator of how good of a president that person will be.
    • DanielBMarkham 13y ago
      Apologies for the directness, but JFK was ranked as some kind of awesome president because he was killed in office, not because of some magic power he had. Most people who weren't infatuated with the man at the time felt like he'd barely be remembered if it weren't for his tragic demise. He was a terribly broken man. I doubt he would have been competent running a gas station at night, much less the country. His saving grace was that his family connections gave him a machine to govern with. There were tons of "special" insiders that helped facilitate both the philandering junkie and the presidency. It's those folks that carried the weight during his term. Those are the ones that did the awesome job. Still, worked out very well. A good lesson in how regular humans can still be president, warts and all. As terribly flawed as the man was, he was nowhere near being the worst U.S. President. And that says something very interesting about the job. Yes, he has a very high popularity ranking, and that's all it takes to be president: being popular.
• andrewem 13y ago
  This story is from February 2012.
• hudibras 13y ago
  This story is almost two years old, how about putting a (2012) in the title?
• aaron695 13y ago
  I always remember a psychologist commenting on someone asking why Bill Clinton, most powerful man in the world would risk it all, and their reason was pretty simple. The point is the wrong way round, it's why you become the most powerful man in the world. Power, money, these are all just proxies, even if the people who have and want them don't know it.
• headgasket 13y ago
  remind me what this has to do with hackernews? Maybe someone understood jacker news? Even so, this is not really new...
  • michaelpinto 13y ago
    Thank you for saying that! Hacker News use to be an amazing resource — now it's a tabloid magazine that you'd find in a supermarket
    • davidw 13y ago
      Perhaps the people voting up this article think that it qualifies for the "intellectually gratifying" in the guidelines. In that case, one can only wonder where in their bodies their "intellects" are located.
• carsongross 13y ago
  "Anyone who thinks they know what's best for 300 million people is a titanic asshole. So we're just voting for king of the assholes." --Shit My Dad Says
  • cbsmith 13y ago
    There's a huge misrepresentation in there that a President thinks they or has any particular knowledge of what's best. Honestly, that's more like the legislative branch. ;-)
• WoodenChair 13y ago
  I love how most of the general public (especially those who lived through it) think Camelot was so classy... like ya know that time the President asked his manipulated teenage mistress to blow his best friend in the pool.
• stfu 13y ago
  Just being curious here: Is there anything "illegal" in that story? Sure, questionable morals of cause. But it looks a lot like a sexual relationship between two consenting adults.
  • chc 13y ago
    > Is there anything "illegal" in that story? There would be if sexual harassment laws had existed at the time. But at the time, no, making your employees have sex with you was not illegal.
• jotm 13y ago
  It's good to be the president!
• spodek 13y ago
  Many posts here critical of JFK so far, including one agreeing with link calling him a monster. Somebody posted here "Its not sexual abuse when you're either the President or in Hollywood," as if his position or location was relevant. The relevant point is everyone was adult and participated voluntarily. We are all free to share our opinions, but different people have different values. 19-year-old women and 45-year-old men are adults free to decide to do what they want. If they choose to do something you disagree with, others disagree with what you do. Name-calling and criticizing adults for doing what everyone involved consented to is opinion and they go both ways.
  • rayiner 13y ago
    Consent isn't such a simple concept. Just as in business, it is possible to use power differentials in ways that are legal but unfair and arguably immoral. The President of the United States telling a teenager to blow a member of his staff counts.
    • fiesycal 13y ago
      I'm interested to hear your reasoning for why it counts. Also at what point (age differential, position differential, gender differential) is it no longer unfair or immoral and why. Could we not argue that any sort of imbalance in a relationship makes it 'abuse'. If that's the case almost al social and commercial contracts are some sort of abuse of power.
      • __david__ 13y ago
        You're asking for a clearly delineated line in the sand which I don't think is really possible with these kinds of things. Morals are just inherently fuzzy things. In other situations, this same behavior might be considered on the "crass, but reasonable" side of the line. In this case, I tend to agree that it was probably an abuse of power.
      • deleted 13y ago
        [deleted]
      • 13y ago
• bane 13y ago
  I was born after JFK and never really "got" the mystique with the Kennedy family. Whenever a Kennedy family special show used to broadcast (pre-cable) I'd always just switch the channel to something more interesting or just turn it off. On the few occasions my Grandmother or Parents insisted I always found the obsessive fawning very tiresome. The brief bits I learned over the years seem to point to a pretty seedy family history full of unprosecuted white-collar crime and general hustling before anybody caught on and criminalized it. Then turned the family wealth into political connections (as organized criminals are wont to do) and was put in charge of "campaign contributions" and the rest is history. "America's Royal Family" is a shameful appellation. I never thought they were terribly photogenic or glamorous or really all that interesting. Using that as a background framework, none of the "scandalous" things I've ever heard about JFK or the family ever really surprised me. This is just yet another thing to add to the list. So...meh?
• xedeon 13y ago
  Two words: Character Assassination. These seemingly mild form of abuse are precursors to physical violence. You really have to understand how clandestine operations work to fully grasp the concept. I suggest you guys watch/listen to his final speech on youtube and really pay attention and listen to what he was saying before he got assassinated. Quite a few of the elite didn't like JFK. You don't just get rid of someone arbitrarily. Especially if they have a public following and great influence. You have to destroy their credibility first and demonize them to prevent the public from inquiring and asking to many questions. JFK and Michael Jackson are the prime examples of this. Listen to MJ's songs and the message he was trying to convey. Does it really align to what he was accused of? and ohh by the way the F.B.I. realized a statement after his death saying that none of the accusations were true and that he was innocent. Never take anything at face value, do the research yourself.
• cfontes 13y ago
  Sorry I am not american. Is it a fact that this really happened? Or just her word? Did she work there? have other people confirmed anything related to it? Thanks
• j2d3 13y ago
  Don't know why this in on HN, but I enjoyed reading it. Hot stuff! This discussion about it looks pretty lame - arguing over whether or not Kennedy was abusing his power or sexually abusing this woman is ridiculous as it robs this woman of both her agency as an 18 year old and now. At 18, like it or not, she was an adult. There is not any "raping" described, and she acknowledges having thought deeply about why she agreed to do this or that. She used her own adult (teen, yes, but also adult) mind to decide what to do. Sure there is a power differential, and in this case an extreme one, but so what... THERE ALWAYS IS! All relationships, especially sexual relationships, involve a power differential / dynamic. This is what makes it fun. Each person is trying to achieve a certain level of "control" over the other, even if that is done counterintuitively by ceding that sense of control to the other. If one brutally and forcibly wrests control over the other, then it is rape. But, if both people are adults making their own decision, then it's simply a typical human sexual relationship!
• philwelch 13y ago
  > On one excursion, she met Vice President Lyndon Johnson. When she told the president about the introduction, he lost his composure. > “Stay away from him,” he commanded, likely worried that Johnson could use knowledge of the affair against him. This probably wasn't the only reason. For all of JFK's misbehavior, he was nothing next to LBJ. When one of his secretaries was staying at his ranch, Johnson confronted her in the middle of the night in her bed, saying "Move over. This is your president." He was also fond of urinating in public and once urinated on one of his secret service agents. In another incident, he got frustrated at some reporters asking why he sent troops to Vietnam, pulled out his (reportedly large) penis, and said "this is why".
• nichtich 13y ago
  "He taught her how to scramble eggs." Can somebody tell me what exactly is that? Urban dictionary didn't help much. http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=scrambled%20egg http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=scrambled%20e...
• grahamburger 13y ago
  Still a better love story than Twilight.