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Evolution is actually a really crappy optimization algorithm. The reason it has worked so well is not that it is so effective, but because it's the only game in

Evolution is actually a really crappy optimization algorithm. The reason it has worked so well is not that it is so effective, but because it's the only game in town. It took evolution billions of years to make machines that can run 60 miles per hour. You come off as being dismissive of the power and beauty of evolution, although I don't think that's your intent. Evolution assembled the most complex system known to exist, starting from a handful of molecules, without any "thought" or "reasoning." The entire concept/illusion of life and consciousness was fabricated out of simple natural elements and physical processes. Amazing. Sure, once all of that has been put in place, it's trivial to expand upon. I'm sure you agree, I just like to take any opportunity to point this out. :)

darkmighty 13y ago
Evolution is a very generalized but very slow optimization algorithm, actually, and it's velocity is sort of inherently connected to the population size and lifespan, meaning it has to make trade-offs, it is limited. But because it's generic that means it can evolve faster mechanisms. I like to think of intelligence as this faster mechanism -- it came about because for living beings with a large lifespan evolving through natural barriers takes too long, so that this more time-localized procedure is needed.
revelation 13y ago
I guess thats the curse of programming. We all have a very clear understanding of how very very simple logic gates give rise to systems of infinite complexity. It's a recurring pattern. SAT, the NP-complete problem, is at first glance a ridiculously simple task, yet solving it means being able to solve all other problems. When designing a language or a machine, it is very very simple to accidentally make it Turing compatible, the barrier is just so low, despite the reward being.. everything.
mistercow 13y ago
Sure, but the main power and beauty of evolution is a direct result of the fact that it is an optimization algorithm. The fact that such an algorithm could just happen is astounding (although possibly inevitable, if universes are common and varied). If I come across as cynical about this, it's a response to the way evolution as a process has been fetishized by people who don't understand it. People look at the application of evolutionary algorithms to solving difficult problems and conclude that evolution is smarter than humans. But evolution's power really comes from its dumbness. It works without understanding the problem, and so it can be used to solve problems we don't understand very well. But when we learn how to model a problem intelligently, we're generally able to crush the results of evolution.
- deleted 13y ago
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Houshalter 13y ago
It's still an incredibly stupid process. Sure it made it's way to the complex life forms we have today, but only after unfathomably huge amounts of time, and trillions and trillions of attempts.
- kamaal 13y ago
  >>but only after unfathomably huge amounts of time, and trillions and trillions of attempts. What's really huge and what no is really a limit and perception of our brains, no? For a evolutionary process that has started at the earliest stars after the Big Bang. Those species are currently so powerful, that we are very likely to them the same as bacteria are to us. Might as well perceive that to be a very reasonably efficient process.
einhverfr 13y ago
> Evolution assembled the most complex system known to exist, starting from a handful of molecules, without any "thought" or "reasoning." There may have been a lot more complexity early on than that statement assumes. Static systems, after all, pretty much by definition can't evolve (and this is why a reductionistic assessment of evolution as biochemistry doesn't work). The beauty behind evolution is the same beauty behind Feynman integrals in quantum physics. You take the integral over all possible paths and something is likely to work. Many paths will end or cancel eachother out. It's like open source software.

darkmighty 13y ago

Evolution is a very generalized but very slow optimization algorithm, actually, and it's velocity is sort of inherently connected to the population size and lifespan, meaning it has to make trade-offs, it is limited. But because it's generic that means it can evolve faster mechanisms. I like to think of intelligence as this faster mechanism -- it came about because for living beings with a large lifespan evolving through natural barriers takes too long, so that this more time-localized procedure is needed.

revelation 13y ago

I guess thats the curse of programming. We all have a very clear understanding of how very very simple logic gates give rise to systems of infinite complexity. It's a recurring pattern. SAT, the NP-complete problem, is at first glance a ridiculously simple task, yet solving it means being able to solve all other problems. When designing a language or a machine, it is very very simple to accidentally make it Turing compatible, the barrier is just so low, despite the reward being.. everything.

mistercow 13y ago

Sure, but the main power and beauty of evolution is a direct result of the fact that it is an optimization algorithm. The fact that such an algorithm could just happen is astounding (although possibly inevitable, if universes are common and varied). If I come across as cynical about this, it's a response to the way evolution as a process has been fetishized by people who don't understand it. People look at the application of evolutionary algorithms to solving difficult problems and conclude that evolution is smarter than humans. But evolution's power really comes from its dumbness. It works without understanding the problem, and so it can be used to solve problems we don't understand very well. But when we learn how to model a problem intelligently, we're generally able to crush the results of evolution.

deleted 13y ago
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Houshalter 13y ago

It's still an incredibly stupid process. Sure it made it's way to the complex life forms we have today, but only after unfathomably huge amounts of time, and trillions and trillions of attempts.

kamaal 13y ago
>>but only after unfathomably huge amounts of time, and trillions and trillions of attempts. What's really huge and what no is really a limit and perception of our brains, no? For a evolutionary process that has started at the earliest stars after the Big Bang. Those species are currently so powerful, that we are very likely to them the same as bacteria are to us. Might as well perceive that to be a very reasonably efficient process.

einhverfr 13y ago

> Evolution assembled the most complex system known to exist, starting from a handful of molecules, without any "thought" or "reasoning." There may have been a lot more complexity early on than that statement assumes. Static systems, after all, pretty much by definition can't evolve (and this is why a reductionistic assessment of evolution as biochemistry doesn't work). The beauty behind evolution is the same beauty behind Feynman integrals in quantum physics. You take the integral over all possible paths and something is likely to work. Many paths will end or cancel eachother out. It's like open source software.