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> But if you don't have ADHD and you use it all the time, it can hurt you. How so? I don't think taking Adderall with or without ADHD has any different effect

> But if you don't have ADHD and you use it all the time, it can hurt you. How so? I don't think taking Adderall with or without ADHD has any different effect on the body. The doctor needs to monitor your heart rate and blood pressure closely either way. edit: Down voted... for what? I'm asking for a citation. FWIW, I have first hand experience and am (legitimately/legally) on Adderall.

FluidDjango 17y ago
As I understand it, there is a very different way these meds work in folks with/without ADHD. With kids at least: it is paradoxical how "hyper" kids are calmed by the use of stimulants - unlike the effects of stimulants on the rest of us. There are other threads here on hackers' experience with ritalin / adderal / their benefits, addiction potential, and side effects. There has also been an item in news in last couple days about a cardiac death for a teen prescribed one of these stimulants. Buyer (and patient) be ware: especially if your doc has not checked you out for contraindications.
- jules 17y ago
  > With kids at least: it is paradoxical how "hyper" kids are calmed by the use of stimulants - unlike the effects of stimulants on the rest of us. I doubt it's that simple. ADHD isn't one disease. It's a lot of things lumped together under one name.
  - blueben 17y ago
    What "things lumped together"? Please substantiate. Having ADD, and having kept up on research for years, I find your assertion that it isn't a disease new and surprising.
    - jules 17y ago
      I'm not saying that you don't have a disease if you have ADD, I'm saying that ADD is not ONE disease. But I've experienced before that people who have ADD are sensitive to claims that it's not a disease (but note that I didn't say that). Here's an excerpt from wikipedia: > DSM-IV criteria > I. Either A or B:[32] A. Six or more of the following symptoms of inattention have been present for at least 6 months to a point that is disruptive and inappropriate for developmental level: > Often does not give close attention to details or makes careless mistakes in schoolwork, work, or other activities. Often has trouble keeping attention on tasks or play activities. > Often does not seem to listen when spoken to directly. Often does not follow instructions and fails to finish schoolwork, chores, or duties in the workplace (not due to oppositional behavior or failure to understand instructions). > Often has trouble organizing activities. > Often avoids, dislikes, or doesn't want to do things that take a lot of mental effort for a long period of time (such as schoolwork or homework). > Often loses things needed for tasks and activities (e.g. toys, school assignments, pencils, books, or tools). > Is often easily distracted. > Often forgetful in daily activities. Note that these vague criteria don't mention physical causes, making it highly unlikely that there's one clear physical cause for ADD in different people. That brings me to what I don't believe: > With kids at least: it is paradoxical how "hyper" kids are calmed by the use of stimulants - unlike the effects of stimulants on the rest of us. If there is no clear physical cause, then how likely is this?
      - blueben 17y ago
        The clear physical cause is something of a misleading question. What matters more in this context is that whatever multiple causes most likely result in a similar systemic behavior (or failure). With ADD that seems to be pre-frontal cortex impairment and is backed up by statistical analysis of various types of neural imaging studies. In short, though the causes may be as varied as genetic in origin to pre-frontal cortex injury in a collision (injuries sustained in front-end crashes which significantly damage the PFC can lead to ADHD-like symptoms), they all lead to similar systemic failures. These similar failures appear to respond quite similarly to stimulant treatment. The key here is that we're treating a systemic problem rather than addressing a specific origin.
      - blueben 17y ago
        Re: sensitivity After a lifetime of facing judgment, criticism, self-doubt, anxiety, depression, and most importantly denial that our condition is even valid, many of us have learned to be sensitive about this matter. We've struggled without much societal support, and defended ourselves against wave after wave of attacks on the very existence of our condition, even since childhood. It's hard to live a childhood with accusations of willful laziness (at best) and trouble-making (at worst) looming over your head. It's even harder to eventually mature, and see children around you suffering the same fate. So you get a little bit angry, a measure defensive, and very sensitive. It's obvious upon rereading that this is not what you where saying though, and for that I apologize.
- greengirl512 17y ago
  If nothing else, Adderall can mess with your sleep cycle and your emotions if you don't have ADHD and you use it consistently. That's why, if you're taking it for performance enhancement as opposed to actually using it to treat a medical condition, I don't think it's a good idea to take it all the time. And of course, the potential cardiac side effects can be pretty nasty.
- k0n2ad 17y ago
  "Stimulants" refers to what a drug does to your heart and respiratory system - not necessarily what it does to your brain. I think that's a common misconception. Pilots in the US Airforce, for example, have at one point (if not still) taken stimulants such as Adderall to remain awake, alert, calm and focused for long and taxing flights. I'm pretty sure that most of them didn't have "ADHD"
- il 17y ago
  Adderall has the same exact stimulating effect on people with and without ADHD. It stimulates the part of the brain that keeps you calm and focused.
htsh 17y ago
You might be scientifically right in questioning the veracity of that specific statement but at the same time its generally true and good advice. In other words, Adderall is a powerful drug with some potentially serious side effects. If you haven't been prescribed it, chances are it'll end up bad. For example, its got a high chance of ending up poorly if you have any sleep issues, if you have depression, if you have an addictive personality, if you're an alcoholic, or if you smoke weed (generally the paranoia one experiences from weed can make amphetamines even more dangerous). I think that's why folks are downvoting you. You might have a small point here, but its rather nitpicky. If you don't have ADD and you're using Adderall all the time, I'd bet money its going to hurt someone, which is all the OP said.
- bretthoerner 17y ago
  But I think you're confusing "being prescribed" and "having ADHD". Plenty of people are prescribed Adderall without having any real tests done, just by saying "I can't focus!" because they want a study helper. All I'm saying is there are health risks regardless of your ADHD. It isn't as if having ADHD magically makes me immune to the side effects of Adderall. I have trouble sleeping at times and other weird effects, too. I keep my doctor up to date and get regularly checked up on. Also, you can have ADHD and be an alcoholic / smoke weed / be paranoid / depressed. As I said, I 100% agree you should go to a doctor... I'm just saying that my ADHD doesn't give me "amphetamine immunity" or anything magical.
  - htsh 17y ago
    1. You might be right that its too easy to get, but that's changing, and Adderall is a class 2 controlled substance. By the books, it should not be easy to get. 2. Completely agreed -- if you take a lot of Adderall, it can be bad regardless of whether or not you have ADD. One of the common bad outcomes results from a lack of sleep after prolonged use, and that happens across the board. 3. I meant to say that if you're an alcoholic / smoke weed / depressed / addictive personality -- you should be screened from taking Adderall, not that you can't have ADHD. In fact, many folks self-medicate their ADD by smoking weed.
  - 17y ago

FluidDjango 17y ago

As I understand it, there is a very different way these meds work in folks with/without ADHD. With kids at least: it is paradoxical how "hyper" kids are calmed by the use of stimulants - unlike the effects of stimulants on the rest of us. There are other threads here on hackers' experience with ritalin / adderal / their benefits, addiction potential, and side effects. There has also been an item in news in last couple days about a cardiac death for a teen prescribed one of these stimulants. Buyer (and patient) be ware: especially if your doc has not checked you out for contraindications.

jules 17y ago
> With kids at least: it is paradoxical how "hyper" kids are calmed by the use of stimulants - unlike the effects of stimulants on the rest of us. I doubt it's that simple. ADHD isn't one disease. It's a lot of things lumped together under one name.
- blueben 17y ago
  What "things lumped together"? Please substantiate. Having ADD, and having kept up on research for years, I find your assertion that it isn't a disease new and surprising.
  - jules 17y ago
    I'm not saying that you don't have a disease if you have ADD, I'm saying that ADD is not ONE disease. But I've experienced before that people who have ADD are sensitive to claims that it's not a disease (but note that I didn't say that). Here's an excerpt from wikipedia: > DSM-IV criteria > I. Either A or B:[32] A. Six or more of the following symptoms of inattention have been present for at least 6 months to a point that is disruptive and inappropriate for developmental level: > Often does not give close attention to details or makes careless mistakes in schoolwork, work, or other activities. Often has trouble keeping attention on tasks or play activities. > Often does not seem to listen when spoken to directly. Often does not follow instructions and fails to finish schoolwork, chores, or duties in the workplace (not due to oppositional behavior or failure to understand instructions). > Often has trouble organizing activities. > Often avoids, dislikes, or doesn't want to do things that take a lot of mental effort for a long period of time (such as schoolwork or homework). > Often loses things needed for tasks and activities (e.g. toys, school assignments, pencils, books, or tools). > Is often easily distracted. > Often forgetful in daily activities. Note that these vague criteria don't mention physical causes, making it highly unlikely that there's one clear physical cause for ADD in different people. That brings me to what I don't believe: > With kids at least: it is paradoxical how "hyper" kids are calmed by the use of stimulants - unlike the effects of stimulants on the rest of us. If there is no clear physical cause, then how likely is this?
    - blueben 17y ago
      The clear physical cause is something of a misleading question. What matters more in this context is that whatever multiple causes most likely result in a similar systemic behavior (or failure). With ADD that seems to be pre-frontal cortex impairment and is backed up by statistical analysis of various types of neural imaging studies. In short, though the causes may be as varied as genetic in origin to pre-frontal cortex injury in a collision (injuries sustained in front-end crashes which significantly damage the PFC can lead to ADHD-like symptoms), they all lead to similar systemic failures. These similar failures appear to respond quite similarly to stimulant treatment. The key here is that we're treating a systemic problem rather than addressing a specific origin.
    - blueben 17y ago
      Re: sensitivity After a lifetime of facing judgment, criticism, self-doubt, anxiety, depression, and most importantly denial that our condition is even valid, many of us have learned to be sensitive about this matter. We've struggled without much societal support, and defended ourselves against wave after wave of attacks on the very existence of our condition, even since childhood. It's hard to live a childhood with accusations of willful laziness (at best) and trouble-making (at worst) looming over your head. It's even harder to eventually mature, and see children around you suffering the same fate. So you get a little bit angry, a measure defensive, and very sensitive. It's obvious upon rereading that this is not what you where saying though, and for that I apologize.
greengirl512 17y ago
If nothing else, Adderall can mess with your sleep cycle and your emotions if you don't have ADHD and you use it consistently. That's why, if you're taking it for performance enhancement as opposed to actually using it to treat a medical condition, I don't think it's a good idea to take it all the time. And of course, the potential cardiac side effects can be pretty nasty.
k0n2ad 17y ago
"Stimulants" refers to what a drug does to your heart and respiratory system - not necessarily what it does to your brain. I think that's a common misconception. Pilots in the US Airforce, for example, have at one point (if not still) taken stimulants such as Adderall to remain awake, alert, calm and focused for long and taxing flights. I'm pretty sure that most of them didn't have "ADHD"
il 17y ago
Adderall has the same exact stimulating effect on people with and without ADHD. It stimulates the part of the brain that keeps you calm and focused.

htsh 17y ago

You might be scientifically right in questioning the veracity of that specific statement but at the same time its generally true and good advice. In other words, Adderall is a powerful drug with some potentially serious side effects. If you haven't been prescribed it, chances are it'll end up bad. For example, its got a high chance of ending up poorly if you have any sleep issues, if you have depression, if you have an addictive personality, if you're an alcoholic, or if you smoke weed (generally the paranoia one experiences from weed can make amphetamines even more dangerous). I think that's why folks are downvoting you. You might have a small point here, but its rather nitpicky. If you don't have ADD and you're using Adderall all the time, I'd bet money its going to hurt someone, which is all the OP said.

bretthoerner 17y ago
But I think you're confusing "being prescribed" and "having ADHD". Plenty of people are prescribed Adderall without having any real tests done, just by saying "I can't focus!" because they want a study helper. All I'm saying is there are health risks regardless of your ADHD. It isn't as if having ADHD magically makes me immune to the side effects of Adderall. I have trouble sleeping at times and other weird effects, too. I keep my doctor up to date and get regularly checked up on. Also, you can have ADHD and be an alcoholic / smoke weed / be paranoid / depressed. As I said, I 100% agree you should go to a doctor... I'm just saying that my ADHD doesn't give me "amphetamine immunity" or anything magical.
- htsh 17y ago
  1. You might be right that its too easy to get, but that's changing, and Adderall is a class 2 controlled substance. By the books, it should not be easy to get. 2. Completely agreed -- if you take a lot of Adderall, it can be bad regardless of whether or not you have ADD. One of the common bad outcomes results from a lack of sleep after prolonged use, and that happens across the board. 3. I meant to say that if you're an alcoholic / smoke weed / depressed / addictive personality -- you should be screened from taking Adderall, not that you can't have ADHD. In fact, many folks self-medicate their ADD by smoking weed.
- 17y ago