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While everyone is talking up hydrogen as a clean alternative. Currently, 90% of hydrogen is refined using fossil fuels. Even if you account for hypothetical/non

While everyone is talking up hydrogen as a clean alternative. Currently, 90% of hydrogen is refined using fossil fuels. Even if you account for hypothetical/nonexistent future technologies, the majority of hydrogen for the foreseeable future is coming from fossil fuels. Hydrogen is truly, "Bullshit". If it launches nationwide it be because gas companies are behind the push, and they will only do it once their gasoline revenue starts to dwindle.

soperj 13y ago
At the end of the day they're not burning the fossil fuel, so it is a clean alternative...
- rory096 13y ago
  Except for every 4 H2 molecules you get a CO2 that's generally released to the atmosphere: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hydrogen_production http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hydrogen_production
Gonzih 13y ago
But same can be applied to electricity. Yes you can get green electricity nowadays but majority is still produced by old fashion power stations.
- a-priori 13y ago
  Depends where you are and your definition of 'green'. In Ontario, right now we're running on: - 57% nuclear - 25% hydro - 14% gas - 3% wind - 1% coal - <1% other (mostly natural gas, apparently) If you consider nuclear, hydroelectric and wind to be 'green' (in the sense that they don't produce CO2), then we're running on 85% green power in Ontario right now. Source: http://media.cns-snc.ca/ontarioelectricity/ontarioelectricity.html http://media.cns-snc.ca/ontarioelectricity/ontarioelectricit...
- marvin 13y ago
  I don't understand why there is so much controversy and disagreement surrounding this question. Electric cars are a requirement for a sustainable energy economy. Where the energy comes from, doesn't really matter in the short term as long as it comes from renewable or nuclear energy in the long term. Regardless, people claiming that electric cars aren't green because the electrical power is often produced from fossil sources, conveniently forget that a lot of fossil fuels are spent producing petroleum fuels. You don't just stick a straw into the ground and have gasoline pour automatically into every gas station in the world. First, you have to have survey teams (often offshore) find oil. Then you have to build the production infrastructure to get it out of the ground. Then you have to add water injection and other tricks to get it out of the ground. Then you have to transport it to a refinery. Then you have to refine it. Then you have to transport it to gas stations. So it's not as easy as some of the naysayers claim.
frezik 13y ago
The hydrogen from fossil fuels isn't used for energy directly, but rather for making nitrate fertilizer. Hydrogen energy storage would probably come from electrolyzing water. Not that this is likely to work, anyway. There's many reasons to believe that hydrogen isn't going to catch up to batteries for this purpose. It's thermodynamically impossible for it to function as a primary energy source unless we can find an easy source of elemental hydrogen. Musk is biased, but he probably had good reasons for taking Tesla in the direction he did.

soperj 13y ago

At the end of the day they're not burning the fossil fuel, so it is a clean alternative...

rory096 13y ago
Except for every 4 H2 molecules you get a CO2 that's generally released to the atmosphere: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hydrogen_production http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hydrogen_production

Gonzih 13y ago

But same can be applied to electricity. Yes you can get green electricity nowadays but majority is still produced by old fashion power stations.

a-priori 13y ago
Depends where you are and your definition of 'green'. In Ontario, right now we're running on: - 57% nuclear - 25% hydro - 14% gas - 3% wind - 1% coal - <1% other (mostly natural gas, apparently) If you consider nuclear, hydroelectric and wind to be 'green' (in the sense that they don't produce CO2), then we're running on 85% green power in Ontario right now. Source: http://media.cns-snc.ca/ontarioelectricity/ontarioelectricity.html http://media.cns-snc.ca/ontarioelectricity/ontarioelectricit...
marvin 13y ago
I don't understand why there is so much controversy and disagreement surrounding this question. Electric cars are a requirement for a sustainable energy economy. Where the energy comes from, doesn't really matter in the short term as long as it comes from renewable or nuclear energy in the long term. Regardless, people claiming that electric cars aren't green because the electrical power is often produced from fossil sources, conveniently forget that a lot of fossil fuels are spent producing petroleum fuels. You don't just stick a straw into the ground and have gasoline pour automatically into every gas station in the world. First, you have to have survey teams (often offshore) find oil. Then you have to build the production infrastructure to get it out of the ground. Then you have to add water injection and other tricks to get it out of the ground. Then you have to transport it to a refinery. Then you have to refine it. Then you have to transport it to gas stations. So it's not as easy as some of the naysayers claim.

frezik 13y ago

The hydrogen from fossil fuels isn't used for energy directly, but rather for making nitrate fertilizer. Hydrogen energy storage would probably come from electrolyzing water. Not that this is likely to work, anyway. There's many reasons to believe that hydrogen isn't going to catch up to batteries for this purpose. It's thermodynamically impossible for it to function as a primary energy source unless we can find an easy source of elemental hydrogen. Musk is biased, but he probably had good reasons for taking Tesla in the direction he did.