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The rest of the same paragraph that you skipped is: > If you want a feature implemented or a bug fixed, fork it and implement it yourself and submit a pull req

The rest of the same paragraph that you skipped is: > If you want a feature implemented or a bug fixed, fork it and implement it yourself and submit a pull request when you're happy with the implementation. And this is exactly the point of open source. You have the source, you can change it, or pay someone to change it, you can contribute back. Not being able to request features for free doesn't make it against the "spirit of open source".

stinos 13y ago
And this is exactly the point of open source. You have the source, you can change it, or pay someone to change it, you can contribute back while I agree this is at least one of the points of open source, it's also one of the reasons it's pretty hard to get someone who is either not a developper or doesn't have time to play with the source to turn from the commercial to the open source side. In my experience users out there want something that Just Works, or will be fixed within a reasonable time. If they read something like this, they go all like "wtf is this mentality, I'll just buy something instead"
- Shorel 13y ago
  And that's OK. Paying money for software (open or not) is not something immoral, in fact, to me it is the way it should be for most cases. Also, Open Source should be important to developers. Aren't you a developer? Then be prepared to pay if you want something that's not implemented already. Not being able to program is the illiteracy of this century.
  - koralatov 13y ago
    Not being able to program is the illiteracy of this century. I'm getting pretty tired of hearing this. It isn't the case at all. Not knowing how to use a computer is `the illiteracy of this century', but claiming not knowing how to program is illiteracy is like claiming not knowing how to play piano makes you tone-deaf.
    - rmrfrmrf 13y ago
      That's a terrible analogy considering that there is such a thing as musical literacy and it doesn't necessarily require knowing how to play the piano.
      - drakeandrews 13y ago
        And digital literacy (for the want of a better term) doesn't necessarily require knowing how to code.
      - singlow 13y ago
        But musical literacy does require that you produce music on some instrument or with your voice, and it is rare that any level of musical training would advance very far without a basic understanding of how to use a piano to pick out some notes for reference. You could decide to learn music without ever learning the piano, but you would have to take great pains to avoid it. Being able to use a computer but having no understanding of how to program it is like being able to operate a record player. Certainly, some people can do masterful work operating a record player -- to the point of an art. You may even learn to operate it in such a way that you could express your own musical ideas. But learning how to operate a record player does not make you musically literate. I do not think that everyone needs to be a programmer, but I do think that computer education in our schools needs to at least introduce the basics of programming to every child. Even if they do not program for the rest of their life, it will give them a foundation for solving problems and improve their ability to use software others have written.
        rmrfrmrf 13y ago
        I agree with you, actually. I just wanted to cover my bases in the event that there's some composer out there who never played an instrument in their life that I'm unaware of. > I do not think that everyone needs to be a programmer, but I do think that computer education in our schools needs to at least introduce the basics of programming to every child. Even if they do not program for the rest of their life, it will give them a foundation for solving problems and improve their ability to use software others have written. Totally agree. I actually got an Arduino starter kit for my little sister's birthday for this very reason. It's over her head at this point, but I remember LEGO Mindstorms being over my head when I was her age, yet still being fascinated with it.
  - cunninghamd 13y ago
    Not being able to program is the illiteracy of this century. While I agree with this sentiment, I think it's patently false. The vast majority of people have a hard enough time using Word or Excel, let alone being able to understand programming concepts or actually being able to program!
    - cdash 13y ago
      I have a hard time using word because it always tries to fight what I am trying to do. It is a complicated piece of software that requires quite a bit of time investment to actually understand how everything works.
    - yeahbutbut 13y ago
      It's not false, the illiteracy is just as widespread as in an era before free public education.
    - rbanffy 13y ago
      > The vast majority of people have a hard enough time using Word or Excel Being a majority doesn't prevent them from being illiterate. For most of human history illiteracy was the norm.
mjs7231 13y ago
I suppose, but then you also need to remember no software is bug free (especially not new software). Maintenance is not a step of software development you can just gloss over. So the only thing I can think if I were to decide using this software is that I will be happily coding along until something breaks. I'll look for a place to open a bug or issue, and see I can't!? At that point I would just go back to some other properly supported editor.
- levosmetalo 13y ago
  That's true. But if few more developers start issuing pull requests, then the maintenance team could arise out of that, and project would eventually start to also accept bug reports and feature requests. But in this phase, it's obviously that in this time frame the goal of the main and only developer is to get to the point that he has something that "works for him" and has a solid foundation he likes before making it usable to others. So yes, it's perfectly in the spirit of open source. And no, it's not (yet) production ready for general (non Go coder) audience.
- deleted 13y ago
  [deleted]
- chongli 13y ago
  So the only thing I can think if I were to decide using this software is that I will be happily coding along until something breaks. I'll look for a place to open a bug or issue, and see I can't!? At that point I would just go back to some other properly supported editor. The benefit of free software (open source plus the freedom to modify and distribute) is that you don't have to do this. You can fix the bug yourself and continue on your merry way. There are many, many stories of companies/people that lost thousands (or sometimes millions) of dollars just because they depended on a piece of proprietary software that became unsupported (for whatever reason) and there was nothing they could do about it.
bluedino 13y ago
But why not let people post issues, so others can fix them?
- ihuman 13y ago
  Because the dev is assuming that if he does this, people will use it to bug him, as opposed to using it as a request system aimed towards others.
- jevinskie 13y ago
  Because allowing issues creates an expectation that the original author is keen on fixing them.
- arca_vorago 13y ago
  Then they can fork it and allow people to post issues on their fork... but this does get me to thinking about how many people even involved in the FOSS world don't understand it very well. Perhaps I am the one wrong here.
- quarnster 13y ago
  In my experience with my other open sourced stuff on Github, others fixing stuff is very rare. Having issues enabled quickly turns into users demanding fixes and no amount of asking for others to chime in aiding with pull requests actually result in pull requests. IIRC most pull requests come either out of the blue for something new no one has requested before, or they don't come at all until I explicitly say "I'm not going to fix this" and close the issue.
  - tobeportable 13y ago
    I believe that some good doc - diagrams to show how code is structured and how parts interact can mitigate this.
  - joeyespo 13y ago
    I've had several bugs fixed in quite a few of my open source projects. Even bugs I've posted on my own projects. And they have only a fraction of the attention yours does. Why not open the issues up and see if it works out? If anything, you can close them if it's becoming a burden. In any case, thanks for open-sourcing this project.
deleted 13y ago
[deleted]
- quarnster 13y ago
  My contact info is not hard to find if you want to discuss a particular approach for a pull requests before implementing it.
  - deleted 13y ago
    [deleted]
    - quarnster 13y ago
      If that actually happened, I'd be overjoyed, until then I'm not going to hold my breath.
  - voltagex_ 13y ago
    the CONTRIBUTING documentation seems to be a good place for this on GitHub, too.
- intull 13y ago
  You could contact the dev and have a discussion with him! If the dev doesn't want it to be a feature in his software, you can post your changes as a plugin/add-on. Effort spent on improving a software rarely goes wasted.
  - csarva 13y ago
    > Effort spent on improving a software rarely goes wasted. Rarely wasted? Have you seen how many open issues and pull requests on github just languish there forever by unconcerned maintainers? Or projects with a million forks because the maintainer has moved on? Stating up front that you're not going to even entertain bug reports definitely has an impact on those wishing to improve the software and contribute back. For one, it precludes an entire class of supporters (users who report bugs) from even helping out at all.
smrtinsert 13y ago
Hah, this is a great idea. "No bitching" open source.

stinos 13y ago

And this is exactly the point of open source. You have the source, you can change it, or pay someone to change it, you can contribute back while I agree this is at least one of the points of open source, it's also one of the reasons it's pretty hard to get someone who is either not a developper or doesn't have time to play with the source to turn from the commercial to the open source side. In my experience users out there want something that Just Works, or will be fixed within a reasonable time. If they read something like this, they go all like "wtf is this mentality, I'll just buy something instead"

Shorel 13y ago
And that's OK. Paying money for software (open or not) is not something immoral, in fact, to me it is the way it should be for most cases. Also, Open Source should be important to developers. Aren't you a developer? Then be prepared to pay if you want something that's not implemented already. Not being able to program is the illiteracy of this century.
- koralatov 13y ago
  Not being able to program is the illiteracy of this century. I'm getting pretty tired of hearing this. It isn't the case at all. Not knowing how to use a computer is `the illiteracy of this century', but claiming not knowing how to program is illiteracy is like claiming not knowing how to play piano makes you tone-deaf.
  - rmrfrmrf 13y ago
    That's a terrible analogy considering that there is such a thing as musical literacy and it doesn't necessarily require knowing how to play the piano.
    - drakeandrews 13y ago
      And digital literacy (for the want of a better term) doesn't necessarily require knowing how to code.
    - singlow 13y ago
      But musical literacy does require that you produce music on some instrument or with your voice, and it is rare that any level of musical training would advance very far without a basic understanding of how to use a piano to pick out some notes for reference. You could decide to learn music without ever learning the piano, but you would have to take great pains to avoid it. Being able to use a computer but having no understanding of how to program it is like being able to operate a record player. Certainly, some people can do masterful work operating a record player -- to the point of an art. You may even learn to operate it in such a way that you could express your own musical ideas. But learning how to operate a record player does not make you musically literate. I do not think that everyone needs to be a programmer, but I do think that computer education in our schools needs to at least introduce the basics of programming to every child. Even if they do not program for the rest of their life, it will give them a foundation for solving problems and improve their ability to use software others have written.
      - rmrfrmrf 13y ago
        I agree with you, actually. I just wanted to cover my bases in the event that there's some composer out there who never played an instrument in their life that I'm unaware of. > I do not think that everyone needs to be a programmer, but I do think that computer education in our schools needs to at least introduce the basics of programming to every child. Even if they do not program for the rest of their life, it will give them a foundation for solving problems and improve their ability to use software others have written. Totally agree. I actually got an Arduino starter kit for my little sister's birthday for this very reason. It's over her head at this point, but I remember LEGO Mindstorms being over my head when I was her age, yet still being fascinated with it.
- cunninghamd 13y ago
  Not being able to program is the illiteracy of this century. While I agree with this sentiment, I think it's patently false. The vast majority of people have a hard enough time using Word or Excel, let alone being able to understand programming concepts or actually being able to program!
  - cdash 13y ago
    I have a hard time using word because it always tries to fight what I am trying to do. It is a complicated piece of software that requires quite a bit of time investment to actually understand how everything works.
  - yeahbutbut 13y ago
    It's not false, the illiteracy is just as widespread as in an era before free public education.
  - rbanffy 13y ago
    > The vast majority of people have a hard enough time using Word or Excel Being a majority doesn't prevent them from being illiterate. For most of human history illiteracy was the norm.

mjs7231 13y ago

I suppose, but then you also need to remember no software is bug free (especially not new software). Maintenance is not a step of software development you can just gloss over. So the only thing I can think if I were to decide using this software is that I will be happily coding along until something breaks. I'll look for a place to open a bug or issue, and see I can't!? At that point I would just go back to some other properly supported editor.

levosmetalo 13y ago
That's true. But if few more developers start issuing pull requests, then the maintenance team could arise out of that, and project would eventually start to also accept bug reports and feature requests. But in this phase, it's obviously that in this time frame the goal of the main and only developer is to get to the point that he has something that "works for him" and has a solid foundation he likes before making it usable to others. So yes, it's perfectly in the spirit of open source. And no, it's not (yet) production ready for general (non Go coder) audience.
deleted 13y ago
[deleted]
chongli 13y ago
So the only thing I can think if I were to decide using this software is that I will be happily coding along until something breaks. I'll look for a place to open a bug or issue, and see I can't!? At that point I would just go back to some other properly supported editor. The benefit of free software (open source plus the freedom to modify and distribute) is that you don't have to do this. You can fix the bug yourself and continue on your merry way. There are many, many stories of companies/people that lost thousands (or sometimes millions) of dollars just because they depended on a piece of proprietary software that became unsupported (for whatever reason) and there was nothing they could do about it.

bluedino 13y ago

But why not let people post issues, so others can fix them?

ihuman 13y ago
Because the dev is assuming that if he does this, people will use it to bug him, as opposed to using it as a request system aimed towards others.
jevinskie 13y ago
Because allowing issues creates an expectation that the original author is keen on fixing them.
arca_vorago 13y ago
Then they can fork it and allow people to post issues on their fork... but this does get me to thinking about how many people even involved in the FOSS world don't understand it very well. Perhaps I am the one wrong here.
quarnster 13y ago
In my experience with my other open sourced stuff on Github, others fixing stuff is very rare. Having issues enabled quickly turns into users demanding fixes and no amount of asking for others to chime in aiding with pull requests actually result in pull requests. IIRC most pull requests come either out of the blue for something new no one has requested before, or they don't come at all until I explicitly say "I'm not going to fix this" and close the issue.
- tobeportable 13y ago
  I believe that some good doc - diagrams to show how code is structured and how parts interact can mitigate this.
- joeyespo 13y ago
  I've had several bugs fixed in quite a few of my open source projects. Even bugs I've posted on my own projects. And they have only a fraction of the attention yours does. Why not open the issues up and see if it works out? If anything, you can close them if it's becoming a burden. In any case, thanks for open-sourcing this project.

deleted 13y ago

[deleted]

quarnster 13y ago
My contact info is not hard to find if you want to discuss a particular approach for a pull requests before implementing it.
- deleted 13y ago
  [deleted]
  - quarnster 13y ago
    If that actually happened, I'd be overjoyed, until then I'm not going to hold my breath.
- voltagex_ 13y ago
  the CONTRIBUTING documentation seems to be a good place for this on GitHub, too.
intull 13y ago
You could contact the dev and have a discussion with him! If the dev doesn't want it to be a feature in his software, you can post your changes as a plugin/add-on. Effort spent on improving a software rarely goes wasted.
- csarva 13y ago
  > Effort spent on improving a software rarely goes wasted. Rarely wasted? Have you seen how many open issues and pull requests on github just languish there forever by unconcerned maintainers? Or projects with a million forks because the maintainer has moved on? Stating up front that you're not going to even entertain bug reports definitely has an impact on those wishing to improve the software and contribute back. For one, it precludes an entire class of supporters (users who report bugs) from even helping out at all.

smrtinsert 13y ago

Hah, this is a great idea. "No bitching" open source.