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Tesla CEO Elon Musk: Fuel cells are 'so bullshit'

6 points by ot 13y ago

codecrusade 13y ago
Question: Doesn’t it take more energy to produce a solar panel than that panel will ever produce in its serviceable life? Elon: The idea that a photovoltaic (PV) solar panel cannot pay back its energy investment is flat out wrong by a huge margin, but I've heard it repeated by many otherwise intelligent people. Martin: This reminds me of otherwise intelligent people who think of hydrogen as a fuel – who don’t realize that it takes lots more energy to create hydrogen gas and pressurize it than you could ever get out of it with a fuel cell (or any other way). Elon: Right. The analysis for photovoltaics is straightforward and has been done by disparate researchers around the world, with the payback results in recent studies varying only by a year or two. http://www.teslamotors.com/de_CH/node/3925 http://www.teslamotors.com/de_CH/node/3925
sdoering 13y ago
I was laughing out loud after reading this bit: In respect for the Supercharge Stations: "Consisting of between 40 and 50 stations, these stations will allow the entire German population to be within reach of a quick-charge and not have to drive more than 200 kilometers (124 miles) to get to the next." Sorry, but does this guy know anything about the German population? Does he know how far the average drive goes? I believe nobody, let me say this again: Nobody will ever drive 124 miles just to "supercharge" his Tesla. This would mean 2h drive to the Supercharge Station and 2 hours driving back. Nobody would even travel 20 miles to do that. I really have a ton of respect for his engineering work. Really I do, but he should just invest in some market research first, before stating that much bullshit. If Germans really shall think about supercharging, there has to be a station within 5 miles, be it in a city, or be it in a more rural area. Or every about 50 miles, on a "autobahn" (highway). [edit: Typo]
- ZeroGravitas 13y ago
  If you have an electric car then the nearest charger will generally be at your house at which you can top up every night. So the "superchargers" are only needed for long journeys that take you out of the car's normal range and so require a quick recharge at some point.
  - sdoering 13y ago
    Yes, I know this. But being underway and having to plan my long trip in such a way, that I have to reach a Supercharger every some hours would be a little bit too much hassle for the average German cardriver. Therefore I stated, that every 50 miles on a highway would be ok, as this is something, that would work for long trips within Germany.
Zoomla 13y ago
Hydrogen can be safely stored without using high pressures. For example: "Hydrides chosen for storage applications provide low reactivity (high safety) and high hydrogen storage densities." https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hydrogen_storage#Chemical_storage https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hydrogen_storage#Chemical_stor.... It almost seems like Elon doesn't like fuel cells because of his battery investments.

6 points by ot 13y ago

Question: Doesn’t it take more energy to produce a solar panel than that panel will ever produce in its serviceable life? Elon: The idea that a photovoltaic (PV) solar panel cannot pay back its energy investment is flat out wrong by a huge margin, but I've heard it repeated by many otherwise intelligent people. Martin: This reminds me of otherwise intelligent people who think of hydrogen as a fuel – who don’t realize that it takes lots more energy to create hydrogen gas and pressurize it than you could ever get out of it with a fuel cell (or any other way). Elon: Right. The analysis for photovoltaics is straightforward and has been done by disparate researchers around the world, with the payback results in recent studies varying only by a year or two. http://www.teslamotors.com/de_CH/node/3925 http://www.teslamotors.com/de_CH/node/3925

sdoering 13y ago

I was laughing out loud after reading this bit: In respect for the Supercharge Stations: "Consisting of between 40 and 50 stations, these stations will allow the entire German population to be within reach of a quick-charge and not have to drive more than 200 kilometers (124 miles) to get to the next." Sorry, but does this guy know anything about the German population? Does he know how far the average drive goes? I believe nobody, let me say this again: Nobody will ever drive 124 miles just to "supercharge" his Tesla. This would mean 2h drive to the Supercharge Station and 2 hours driving back. Nobody would even travel 20 miles to do that. I really have a ton of respect for his engineering work. Really I do, but he should just invest in some market research first, before stating that much bullshit. If Germans really shall think about supercharging, there has to be a station within 5 miles, be it in a city, or be it in a more rural area. Or every about 50 miles, on a "autobahn" (highway). [edit: Typo]

ZeroGravitas 13y ago
If you have an electric car then the nearest charger will generally be at your house at which you can top up every night. So the "superchargers" are only needed for long journeys that take you out of the car's normal range and so require a quick recharge at some point.
- sdoering 13y ago
  Yes, I know this. But being underway and having to plan my long trip in such a way, that I have to reach a Supercharger every some hours would be a little bit too much hassle for the average German cardriver. Therefore I stated, that every 50 miles on a highway would be ok, as this is something, that would work for long trips within Germany.

Zoomla 13y ago

Hydrogen can be safely stored without using high pressures. For example: "Hydrides chosen for storage applications provide low reactivity (high safety) and high hydrogen storage densities." https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hydrogen_storage#Chemical_storage https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hydrogen_storage#Chemical_stor.... It almost seems like Elon doesn't like fuel cells because of his battery investments.