5 ms·

This doesn't change how hackers look at the web. There's a reason we use servers -- 24x7 availability with network redundancies, backup power, etc, etc. Most

This doesn't change how hackers look at the web. There's a reason we use servers -- 24x7 availability with network redundancies, backup power, etc, etc. Most hackers I know can run servers off their local box by using either static IPs from their provider or a proxy service. But many don't because of the reasons above. And now that there are so many great (mostly free) turnkey hosting services like App Engine and Heroku, it's never been simpler to offload all the server issues to a cloud. The main target audience for this would be users who can't use any of the cloud hosting and also don't need high availability. My folks live by a lake with satellite broadband -- bad latency, frequent dropouts due to weather, and a host of other issues, like simply not wanting to keep their computer on all day, every day. They couldn't use this service. Other users would likely confront at least one of the issues. I've just browsed the Opera material, but I don't see a database/datastore -- maybe submitted data is supposed to go to disk? (The blog example has submitted forms going to memory!) So why is this a huge development?

niyazpk 17y ago
This is not about reliability. We are not talking about traditional servers and applications. This is a huge development because when everyone can host applications for free in their own browser we will soon start seeing new paradigms in the way how we use the internet and how applications are served. I am not smart enough to forecast HOW this will be done, but I have a gut feeling that this will lead us to something really game-changing.
- DocSavage 17y ago
  What kinds of apps is this supposed to unleash? If the application is sufficiently complex to require programming or a database, which is true of just about any non-trivial app, then the user is savvy enough to host apps for free in several cloud hosting services with very easy deployment. If we're just talking about file or photo sharing, then there are other services like Dropbox that work well and don't require constant connectivity and compute power on the client side. I'm typically a fan boy of new tech, but other than a nice proxy service, I don't see why this is revolutionary or game changing. Time will tell, but if there really is a market for something like this, it'll be served by a really cool and simple app development tool which autosyncs to a cloud. Building the app in a brain-dead way is the chokepoint for people coming up with personal apps, not the server infrastructure (at least now in 2009). Why bother with client-side computers for a web-facing personal presence?
  - rarestblog 17y ago
    Well, they do show how to create a Blog (without any kind of database server setup and believe me - it's very simple!), although I need to find a way to save it between sessions (when you close Opera - entries are gone). They have sandboxed filesystem, so there's probably just a way to dump JSON to a file and reload on start.
    - yankeeracer73 17y ago
      Which is cool, but again when you decide to leave for vacation for a week and take your laptop with you to look up dinner options where you're going and don't leave it running all day in your hotel room - no one can read your blog! Am I missing something?
      - moranus 17y ago
        I'm waiting for the next step: Why don't they provide a "headless opera" to permanently store applications on their server infrastructure?
      - plesn 17y ago
        That's also what I'm looking forward to see. Personally my solution here would be distributed P2P: encrypted content dispatched through neighbours/servers (for some part of the content only, you could choose, for your blog but not necessarily all your shared disk). I think this + some distributed P2P could well be the web3.0: a new way poeple could use and share their data (a huge open facebook killer).
  - DocSavage 17y ago
    OK, I'm willing to take downvotes here, because I'm going to slap HN a little. Why are many people upvoting niyazpk's comments (+14/4 vs other +1 comments before I head to sleep)? To sum up his arguments: it's cool and he's got a gut feeling that it's a web game changer. Meanwhile, there's a bunch of more critical comments that point out Opera's insignificant examples and reasons why the developers that can most use this technology would be better to use more reliable cloud hosting. And these comments get some ups then get pushed back to 1 point. Aren't we supposed to be more analytical here? If you're going to upvote something, make sure there some substance behind the comment rather than what's tantamount to a "that's cool, Opera rox."
- omouse 17y ago
  You mean in how we use the Web. We're just moving all the Internet services into a Web browser, which is interesting but not that interesting.
misuba 17y ago
This is for people, not hackers. When your friend signs out of chat, you don't complain that he's an unreliable service.
pbhj 17y ago
Do your folks currently have their own server, how about your cousin with the Nintendo DS (Opera browser) or perhaps you have a server on your iPhone (serving by bluetooth maybe?) ... my post from the 14th, http://alicious.com/2009/opera-about-to-change-the-world/ http://alicious.com/2009/opera-about-to-change-the-world/

niyazpk 17y ago

This is not about reliability. We are not talking about traditional servers and applications. This is a huge development because when everyone can host applications for free in their own browser we will soon start seeing new paradigms in the way how we use the internet and how applications are served. I am not smart enough to forecast HOW this will be done, but I have a gut feeling that this will lead us to something really game-changing.

DocSavage 17y ago
What kinds of apps is this supposed to unleash? If the application is sufficiently complex to require programming or a database, which is true of just about any non-trivial app, then the user is savvy enough to host apps for free in several cloud hosting services with very easy deployment. If we're just talking about file or photo sharing, then there are other services like Dropbox that work well and don't require constant connectivity and compute power on the client side. I'm typically a fan boy of new tech, but other than a nice proxy service, I don't see why this is revolutionary or game changing. Time will tell, but if there really is a market for something like this, it'll be served by a really cool and simple app development tool which autosyncs to a cloud. Building the app in a brain-dead way is the chokepoint for people coming up with personal apps, not the server infrastructure (at least now in 2009). Why bother with client-side computers for a web-facing personal presence?
- rarestblog 17y ago
  Well, they do show how to create a Blog (without any kind of database server setup and believe me - it's very simple!), although I need to find a way to save it between sessions (when you close Opera - entries are gone). They have sandboxed filesystem, so there's probably just a way to dump JSON to a file and reload on start.
  - yankeeracer73 17y ago
    Which is cool, but again when you decide to leave for vacation for a week and take your laptop with you to look up dinner options where you're going and don't leave it running all day in your hotel room - no one can read your blog! Am I missing something?
    - moranus 17y ago
      I'm waiting for the next step: Why don't they provide a "headless opera" to permanently store applications on their server infrastructure?
    - plesn 17y ago
      That's also what I'm looking forward to see. Personally my solution here would be distributed P2P: encrypted content dispatched through neighbours/servers (for some part of the content only, you could choose, for your blog but not necessarily all your shared disk). I think this + some distributed P2P could well be the web3.0: a new way poeple could use and share their data (a huge open facebook killer).
- DocSavage 17y ago
  OK, I'm willing to take downvotes here, because I'm going to slap HN a little. Why are many people upvoting niyazpk's comments (+14/4 vs other +1 comments before I head to sleep)? To sum up his arguments: it's cool and he's got a gut feeling that it's a web game changer. Meanwhile, there's a bunch of more critical comments that point out Opera's insignificant examples and reasons why the developers that can most use this technology would be better to use more reliable cloud hosting. And these comments get some ups then get pushed back to 1 point. Aren't we supposed to be more analytical here? If you're going to upvote something, make sure there some substance behind the comment rather than what's tantamount to a "that's cool, Opera rox."
omouse 17y ago
You mean in how we use the Web. We're just moving all the Internet services into a Web browser, which is interesting but not that interesting.

misuba 17y ago

This is for people, not hackers. When your friend signs out of chat, you don't complain that he's an unreliable service.

pbhj 17y ago

Do your folks currently have their own server, how about your cousin with the Nintendo DS (Opera browser) or perhaps you have a server on your iPhone (serving by bluetooth maybe?) ... my post from the 14th, http://alicious.com/2009/opera-about-to-change-the-world/ http://alicious.com/2009/opera-about-to-change-the-world/