4 ms·

Umm... You are accusing MS of just forcing their choices upon their users? Isn't that Apple's standard (and actually well documented. Remember that article abou

Umm... You are accusing MS of just forcing their choices upon their users? Isn't that Apple's standard (and actually well documented. Remember that article about Innovator's dillemma and jobs?) policy? I thought apple was famous for completely ignoring their users and telling them WHAT they want. Now THAT is use of monopoly. Google does that too (remember closing off gtalk?). Secondly, the Metro UI thing, IMHO wasn't a forceful use of power. It was a bet (a lost one) that touchscreen laptops will become predominant. And So they created a UI based on that bet. They (incorrectly) thought that people want exactly the same UI on all their devices. So it's not that they are EVIL, just misguided. So i don't HATE Microsoft, i just pity them.

CamperBob2 13y ago
The problem is not that MS is forcing choices on their desktop users. Apple, Google, Yahoo, and everyone else does that. The problem is that MS is forcing terrible choices on their desktop users. They had one job. One job. Don't screw up Windows. And what'd they do? They screwed up Windows. Metro was a mistake. And again, everybody else makes mistakes, too. But then they went full retard, and refused to backtrack. That part is the reason for the "hate."
- efdee 13y ago
  You sound like someone who hasn't used Windows 8 before, or not for longer than half a day anyways. Windows 8 in desktop mode really isn't any different from Windows 7, except for the fact that the Start menu is now fullscreen instead of a popup menu. Metro a mistake? That might be your opinion, but I fiercely disagree with it. Just because you don't like Metro, for whatever reason that might be, does not make it a mistake.
  - mark_integerdsv 13y ago
    14 years experience in IT. Had to google to find the shutdown switch. Sorry but Win8 is absurd.
    - xerophtye 13y ago
      I wouldn't say absurd... just different. I mean, if you have been using windows for 14 years and are used to teh Maximize button, and then you use MacOS and click the box button beside the x and.. something COMPLETELY different happens. does that make MacOS absurd? or does that make windows absurd to Mac users? (while proponents of both OS would tell you YES it DOES make it absurd, but they are both WRONG aren't they?) Different isn't necessarily a bad design.
    - efdee 13y ago
      Your computer's power button functions as a shutdown switch. After 14 years in IT, you have never realised that?
      - mark_integerdsv 13y ago
        I was using it in a touchscreen tabletop. Sticking to my guns on this one and choosing to let your sarcastic tone slide.
      - CamperBob2 13y ago
        My computer's power button is on the other side of the room. Don't break useful, common functionality because you think it's not important.
- notahacker 13y ago
  Oh come off it. Name me an established software company that hasn't forced choices on their desktop users that many of them have considered "terrible". Over a similar timescale Apple has been responsible for the debacle that was Apple Maps (to reduce dependence on Google) and the dubious aesthetics of iOS7 whilst Google and Yahoo have forced millions of users to choose other services as they go on shutdown rampages (to focus on more profitable areas) and in Yahoo's case, touted the availability of your old Yahoo email addresses to phishers (because they're crazy?). Meanwhile, despite your "refuse to backtrack" claim Microsoft has brought the much-missed Start button back in the first major patch and continues to ship Windows 7 - you can even downgrade your 8 license if you miss it too much. You can't do that with iOS7 which despite being a relatively conservative update had equally mixed reviews... Criticising Microsoft is like shooting fish in a barrel, so it's odd you'd pick on them for innovating without thought to convention and backward compatibility - an area where they're generally more cautious than the peers you named - and a product that actually has plenty of fans.
  - CamperBob2 13y ago
    The issue was never about the loss of the Start button. It was about the loss of the Start menu. That hasn't been fixed. I don't understand why so many people fall for this misdirection.
    - dykesa 13y ago
      I don't understand why so many people think a small text menu is better than a full page customizable selection screen with decent built-in search...
      - CamperBob2 13y ago
        It's called "mental context." Also, what kind of drugs does one need to ingest to make it seem like a good idea to enforce UI conventions optimized for 4" cell phones on a user with a pair of 30" desktop monitors? Are we talking plant-based alkaloids, aromatic hydrocarbons, or what?
- mcv 13y ago
  But they're not forcing you to use Windows 8, do they? In the days of DOS and Win 95, they used every dirty trick in the book to force competitors out of the market. Nowadays they can't do that anymore. A lot of software that was only available on DOS or Windows is now available on Mac and Linux. And even if you do need Windows, Win7 works fine. I feel forced to switch from XP to 7, but that's not such a terrible move. I'll skip Win8, and maybe there won't even be a Win9.
  - xerophtye 13y ago
    Or maybe it'll be better. Microsoft has a history of alternating good and bad products. XP, Vista, win7, Win8... just one example

CamperBob2 13y ago

The problem is not that MS is forcing choices on their desktop users. Apple, Google, Yahoo, and everyone else does that. The problem is that MS is forcing terrible choices on their desktop users. They had one job. One job. Don't screw up Windows. And what'd they do? They screwed up Windows. Metro was a mistake. And again, everybody else makes mistakes, too. But then they went full retard, and refused to backtrack. That part is the reason for the "hate."

efdee 13y ago
You sound like someone who hasn't used Windows 8 before, or not for longer than half a day anyways. Windows 8 in desktop mode really isn't any different from Windows 7, except for the fact that the Start menu is now fullscreen instead of a popup menu. Metro a mistake? That might be your opinion, but I fiercely disagree with it. Just because you don't like Metro, for whatever reason that might be, does not make it a mistake.
- mark_integerdsv 13y ago
  14 years experience in IT. Had to google to find the shutdown switch. Sorry but Win8 is absurd.
  - xerophtye 13y ago
    I wouldn't say absurd... just different. I mean, if you have been using windows for 14 years and are used to teh Maximize button, and then you use MacOS and click the box button beside the x and.. something COMPLETELY different happens. does that make MacOS absurd? or does that make windows absurd to Mac users? (while proponents of both OS would tell you YES it DOES make it absurd, but they are both WRONG aren't they?) Different isn't necessarily a bad design.
  - efdee 13y ago
    Your computer's power button functions as a shutdown switch. After 14 years in IT, you have never realised that?
    - mark_integerdsv 13y ago
      I was using it in a touchscreen tabletop. Sticking to my guns on this one and choosing to let your sarcastic tone slide.
    - CamperBob2 13y ago
      My computer's power button is on the other side of the room. Don't break useful, common functionality because you think it's not important.
notahacker 13y ago
Oh come off it. Name me an established software company that hasn't forced choices on their desktop users that many of them have considered "terrible". Over a similar timescale Apple has been responsible for the debacle that was Apple Maps (to reduce dependence on Google) and the dubious aesthetics of iOS7 whilst Google and Yahoo have forced millions of users to choose other services as they go on shutdown rampages (to focus on more profitable areas) and in Yahoo's case, touted the availability of your old Yahoo email addresses to phishers (because they're crazy?). Meanwhile, despite your "refuse to backtrack" claim Microsoft has brought the much-missed Start button back in the first major patch and continues to ship Windows 7 - you can even downgrade your 8 license if you miss it too much. You can't do that with iOS7 which despite being a relatively conservative update had equally mixed reviews... Criticising Microsoft is like shooting fish in a barrel, so it's odd you'd pick on them for innovating without thought to convention and backward compatibility - an area where they're generally more cautious than the peers you named - and a product that actually has plenty of fans.
- CamperBob2 13y ago
  The issue was never about the loss of the Start button. It was about the loss of the Start menu. That hasn't been fixed. I don't understand why so many people fall for this misdirection.
  - dykesa 13y ago
    I don't understand why so many people think a small text menu is better than a full page customizable selection screen with decent built-in search...
    - CamperBob2 13y ago
      It's called "mental context." Also, what kind of drugs does one need to ingest to make it seem like a good idea to enforce UI conventions optimized for 4" cell phones on a user with a pair of 30" desktop monitors? Are we talking plant-based alkaloids, aromatic hydrocarbons, or what?
mcv 13y ago
But they're not forcing you to use Windows 8, do they? In the days of DOS and Win 95, they used every dirty trick in the book to force competitors out of the market. Nowadays they can't do that anymore. A lot of software that was only available on DOS or Windows is now available on Mac and Linux. And even if you do need Windows, Win7 works fine. I feel forced to switch from XP to 7, but that's not such a terrible move. I'll skip Win8, and maybe there won't even be a Win9.
- xerophtye 13y ago
  Or maybe it'll be better. Microsoft has a history of alternating good and bad products. XP, Vista, win7, Win8... just one example