4 ms·

I (speaking for myself, obviously, not anyone else on HN) don't hate Microsoft. I use Windows! Windows 8 in fact! For context because I'm sure some people (I

I (speaking for myself, obviously, not anyone else on HN) don't hate Microsoft. I use Windows! Windows 8 in fact! For context because I'm sure some people (I do think there is an anti-MS bias here on HN, though not as pronounced as OP thinks it is) may think I'm some stereotypical Microsoft-using rube. I grew up in the 80s, programming first on the C64 (BASIC, 6510 Assembler), then Amiga, then various UNIX systems (SunOS, IRIX, AIX, Ultrix, Solaris, later Linux). I avoided Windows like crazy until Windows 2000 came out because prior to that release the idea of using an OS where one process could crash the system at any time seemed ridiculous (post my Amiga days), and running NT was only for "enterprises" (at that time). But since I first started using Windows 2000, Windows has always been my "primary" OS, partly for gaming reasons, partly for access to commercial software (currently Adobe Lightroom and Photoshop), and partly because I simply actually just like the look and feel of it. In the meantime I spent quite a number of years doing Win32 software development (though now I'm mostly doing Android/Java and some embedded stuff with Go) and to this day, Visual Studio is still the programming environment by which all others I use are measured and found wanting. There are some pretty decent other ones, but I still miss the absolute power of the VS debugger (against C, C++ and C#) and everytime I find myself doing printf-debugging because the FOSS tool I'm using doesn't have solid debugging support I cry a little inside. I also still do a lot of Linux-based programming these days, each Windows system I use has half a dozen or more Linux VMs running on them regularly, but I still prefer Windows as an overall primary desktop. It is fast and extremely stable these days (hell, the GPU driver can crash due to Nvidia bugs and Windows will just restart that mofo and keep going, how cool is that?). All that said, yes, Microsoft hasn't always acted in the best interests of the overall industry (but neither has any other company near their size, and Microsoft has gotten better over the years while some others I won't name have gotten worse, IMO). Also, I still haven't found any good reason to buy a WinRT device. But my overall impression of Microsoft is pretty positive.

xerophtye 13y ago
Agreed. The power of the VS debugger is unparalleled!! You can actually look into everything and figure out exactly what is happening. Though you should try IntelliJ IDEA for Java. I love the "Evaluate expression" feature in their debugger
- jasonwocky 13y ago
  IDEA's development environments are only ones, in my experience, that outdo MS's. Way better refactoring support (any VS user who doesn't also have a copy of IDEA's Resharper plugin installed is crazy), better debugger. Better all around.
rounak 13y ago
Under the assumption that you're a developer, how do you deal with the lack of a great Terminal/Command line interface on Windows?
- TheAnimus 13y ago
  As a developer (just jumping in) I'd hazard a guess the same way I deal with the horrific lack on consistency with a command line interface on any posix platform I use. There is a bit of a shift I find, if I'm doing something all Microsoft, I've got Visual Studio and plugins loaded, it is effectively a 3,000lb sledge hammer. A few years ago it was an effort to ensure my PC had enough RAM to run such a beast, complete with Resharper. However I don't have to leave VS for pretty much anything. This is really nice. When you get used to having a proper IDE, by that I mean one which does everything you need effortlessly, it you don't really ever go outside it. Ultimately, as a developer rather than a SysAdmin I never need a CLI for getting code made. Managing servers and such is a different union! However I will say powershell isn't bad at all.
- Arzh 13y ago
  I use command line in both linux and windows, they offer the exact same thing, just different commands. Of course it windows has a few problems with it, but mostly just presentation (like static buffer size for width). I'd say 90% of microsoft tools have a CLI you just have to know how to use them, which is the exact same thing when you are going to linux for the first time.
- _random_ 13y ago
  It's like asking people from the future how do they deal with the lack of internal combustion engines. Well, we kind of don't need them in most cases. Because things evolved. GUI has been invented long enough for everyone to catch up.
  - subsection1h 13y ago
    You should contact Microsoft and tell them that creating PowerShell was a mistake because GUIs are the future. I'm sure they'll weigh your "GUIs are the future" argument carefully, as we have.
yuhong 13y ago
I avoided Windows like crazy until Windows 2000 came out because prior to that release the idea of using an OS where one process could crash the system at any time seemed ridiculous (post my Amiga days), and running NT was only for "enterprises" (at that time). Ah, the MS OS/2 2.0 fiasco, though my favorite limitation of Win9x is actually how it depended on DOS which allowed Caldera to continue the lawsuit against MS.

xerophtye 13y ago

Agreed. The power of the VS debugger is unparalleled!! You can actually look into everything and figure out exactly what is happening. Though you should try IntelliJ IDEA for Java. I love the "Evaluate expression" feature in their debugger

jasonwocky 13y ago
IDEA's development environments are only ones, in my experience, that outdo MS's. Way better refactoring support (any VS user who doesn't also have a copy of IDEA's Resharper plugin installed is crazy), better debugger. Better all around.

rounak 13y ago

Under the assumption that you're a developer, how do you deal with the lack of a great Terminal/Command line interface on Windows?

TheAnimus 13y ago
As a developer (just jumping in) I'd hazard a guess the same way I deal with the horrific lack on consistency with a command line interface on any posix platform I use. There is a bit of a shift I find, if I'm doing something all Microsoft, I've got Visual Studio and plugins loaded, it is effectively a 3,000lb sledge hammer. A few years ago it was an effort to ensure my PC had enough RAM to run such a beast, complete with Resharper. However I don't have to leave VS for pretty much anything. This is really nice. When you get used to having a proper IDE, by that I mean one which does everything you need effortlessly, it you don't really ever go outside it. Ultimately, as a developer rather than a SysAdmin I never need a CLI for getting code made. Managing servers and such is a different union! However I will say powershell isn't bad at all.
Arzh 13y ago
I use command line in both linux and windows, they offer the exact same thing, just different commands. Of course it windows has a few problems with it, but mostly just presentation (like static buffer size for width). I'd say 90% of microsoft tools have a CLI you just have to know how to use them, which is the exact same thing when you are going to linux for the first time.
_random_ 13y ago
It's like asking people from the future how do they deal with the lack of internal combustion engines. Well, we kind of don't need them in most cases. Because things evolved. GUI has been invented long enough for everyone to catch up.
- subsection1h 13y ago
  You should contact Microsoft and tell them that creating PowerShell was a mistake because GUIs are the future. I'm sure they'll weigh your "GUIs are the future" argument carefully, as we have.

yuhong 13y ago

I avoided Windows like crazy until Windows 2000 came out because prior to that release the idea of using an OS where one process could crash the system at any time seemed ridiculous (post my Amiga days), and running NT was only for "enterprises" (at that time). Ah, the MS OS/2 2.0 fiasco, though my favorite limitation of Win9x is actually how it depended on DOS which allowed Caldera to continue the lawsuit against MS.