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With all due respect you're just another OSS evangelist comparing RoR to Visual Basic, Classic ASP and ASP.NET. It is a silly comparison but it is so unbelieva

by 300bps 13y ago

With all due respect you're just another OSS evangelist comparing RoR to Visual Basic, Classic ASP and ASP.NET. It is a silly comparison but it is so unbelievably common here. Try comparing it to ASP.NET MVC and you'll see that Microsoft actually has a modern and compelling offering. They really haven't sit still since you've been gone.

nikatwork 13y ago
The funny thing is I never mentioned RoR in my GP, so you inserted that comparison in your own head. I'm talking about a complete OSS ecosystem - dev language, servers, VC, deployment tools, monitoring etc. I work at enterprise scale in FIRE, and there is so much more to successful project delivery than just language/IDE. BTW I had to bandage up a limping ASP.NET MVC app about three years ago for a large Canadian telco. Nothing I saw under the hood changed my mind about MS.
- 300bps 13y ago
  Inserted the comparison in my head or read your subsequent comment that prominently mentions RoR? For a hint, it is the latter. As for your claim to have "bandaged a limping ASP.NET MVC app about three years ago", you might not be aware that version 1.0 was only released about 4 years ago and that they're currently at version 5.1. How much work with Razor syntax have you done considering it didn't exist three years ago?
- Fargren 13y ago
  Well, he did reply half an hour after you mentioned RoR. So it's possible that he just chose to reply to your first post because he thought replying to the other one would derail that discussion. Not that I care, not having used any of the technologies discussed here other than a little VS, that a I liked, and a little VSS, that I hated.
- keithwarren 13y ago
  I hate when people do that, 'I had to mess with some shitty code and it was made in X, therefore all of X is shitty' Crappy work can be done in any language/framework
shadowmint 13y ago
Quite so~ There is a difference between being keen to see the new features in the next version of .Net, and having Microsoft suddenly decide, actually, we dont care about .Net anymore, XNA is cancelled, metro apps are javascript only now. All that WFC stuff you were doing with windows phone... yeah, forget that. People invest their time and knowledge in a technology stack, and Microsoft just seem to love throwing things away rather than improving them. When you set fire to the developers that use your technology, are you really surprised when they don't want to have anything to do with you? I've only seen this anecdotally, but new developers who haven't yet been set on fire seem to be very positive about the integrated MS stack. ...and slightly older jaded developers who are on fire, and looking for jobs using technology no one cares about anymore say things like 'I'll never use microsoft technology again'. That's just been my personal experience, but I've got to admit, seeing it, I'm pretty skeptical about investing any more of my time in learning to use MS stack for anything. ...but yes. C# is quite a nice language. I fully endorse the use of Xamarins offerings (ie. C# .Net outside of microsofts control)
- ghuntley 13y ago
  The Alt.Net movement is a powerful force; always looking for better ways of doing things no matter where that alternative might come from. So if it's something new from Microsoft, that's great - if it's an approach from the open source world or an alternate language or somewhere else entirely then that's great too. Xamarin deserves particular mention as the ability to share 80-90% of your core codebase between all mobile phone platforms is just stellar. It makes absolutely no business sense to re-write your core business logic for each platform and in that platforms language. So much less project risk, merge three/four code bases into one. Do it once then implement native UI's for each platform and bind back to the core library? Spot a problem in the core library on iOS? Android gets the hotfix for free. Just ask Rdio ;-) Other hotness: - https://www.nuget.org/ https://www.nuget.org/ - http://www.servicestack.net/ http://www.servicestack.net/ - http://owin.org/ http://owin.org/ - http://nancyfx.org/ http://nancyfx.org/ - https://github.com/MvvmCross/MvvmCross https://github.com/MvvmCross/MvvmCross - http://research.microsoft.com/en-us/projects/pex/ http://research.microsoft.com/en-us/projects/pex/ - https://github.com/swax/CodePerspective https://github.com/swax/CodePerspective - http://signalr.net/ http://signalr.net/ - https://github.com/Redth/PushSharp https://github.com/Redth/PushSharp - https://github.com/Squirrel/Squirrel.Windows https://github.com/Squirrel/Squirrel.Windows Last but not least: http://blogs.msdn.com/b/visualstudioalm/archive/2013/06/26/debugging-support-for-64-bit-edit-and-continue-in-visual-studio-2013.aspx http://blogs.msdn.com/b/visualstudioalm/archive/2013/06/26/d...
_random_ 13y ago
And all latest Microsoft technologies are Open Source as well by the way.

by 300bps 13y ago

nikatwork 13y ago

The funny thing is I never mentioned RoR in my GP, so you inserted that comparison in your own head. I'm talking about a complete OSS ecosystem - dev language, servers, VC, deployment tools, monitoring etc. I work at enterprise scale in FIRE, and there is so much more to successful project delivery than just language/IDE. BTW I had to bandage up a limping ASP.NET MVC app about three years ago for a large Canadian telco. Nothing I saw under the hood changed my mind about MS.

300bps 13y ago
Inserted the comparison in my head or read your subsequent comment that prominently mentions RoR? For a hint, it is the latter. As for your claim to have "bandaged a limping ASP.NET MVC app about three years ago", you might not be aware that version 1.0 was only released about 4 years ago and that they're currently at version 5.1. How much work with Razor syntax have you done considering it didn't exist three years ago?
Fargren 13y ago
Well, he did reply half an hour after you mentioned RoR. So it's possible that he just chose to reply to your first post because he thought replying to the other one would derail that discussion. Not that I care, not having used any of the technologies discussed here other than a little VS, that a I liked, and a little VSS, that I hated.
keithwarren 13y ago
I hate when people do that, 'I had to mess with some shitty code and it was made in X, therefore all of X is shitty' Crappy work can be done in any language/framework

shadowmint 13y ago

Quite so~ There is a difference between being keen to see the new features in the next version of .Net, and having Microsoft suddenly decide, actually, we dont care about .Net anymore, XNA is cancelled, metro apps are javascript only now. All that WFC stuff you were doing with windows phone... yeah, forget that. People invest their time and knowledge in a technology stack, and Microsoft just seem to love throwing things away rather than improving them. When you set fire to the developers that use your technology, are you really surprised when they don't want to have anything to do with you? I've only seen this anecdotally, but new developers who haven't yet been set on fire seem to be very positive about the integrated MS stack. ...and slightly older jaded developers who are on fire, and looking for jobs using technology no one cares about anymore say things like 'I'll never use microsoft technology again'. That's just been my personal experience, but I've got to admit, seeing it, I'm pretty skeptical about investing any more of my time in learning to use MS stack for anything. ...but yes. C# is quite a nice language. I fully endorse the use of Xamarins offerings (ie. C# .Net outside of microsofts control)

ghuntley 13y ago
The Alt.Net movement is a powerful force; always looking for better ways of doing things no matter where that alternative might come from. So if it's something new from Microsoft, that's great - if it's an approach from the open source world or an alternate language or somewhere else entirely then that's great too. Xamarin deserves particular mention as the ability to share 80-90% of your core codebase between all mobile phone platforms is just stellar. It makes absolutely no business sense to re-write your core business logic for each platform and in that platforms language. So much less project risk, merge three/four code bases into one. Do it once then implement native UI's for each platform and bind back to the core library? Spot a problem in the core library on iOS? Android gets the hotfix for free. Just ask Rdio ;-) Other hotness: - https://www.nuget.org/ https://www.nuget.org/ - http://www.servicestack.net/ http://www.servicestack.net/ - http://owin.org/ http://owin.org/ - http://nancyfx.org/ http://nancyfx.org/ - https://github.com/MvvmCross/MvvmCross https://github.com/MvvmCross/MvvmCross - http://research.microsoft.com/en-us/projects/pex/ http://research.microsoft.com/en-us/projects/pex/ - https://github.com/swax/CodePerspective https://github.com/swax/CodePerspective - http://signalr.net/ http://signalr.net/ - https://github.com/Redth/PushSharp https://github.com/Redth/PushSharp - https://github.com/Squirrel/Squirrel.Windows https://github.com/Squirrel/Squirrel.Windows Last but not least: http://blogs.msdn.com/b/visualstudioalm/archive/2013/06/26/debugging-support-for-64-bit-edit-and-continue-in-visual-studio-2013.aspx http://blogs.msdn.com/b/visualstudioalm/archive/2013/06/26/d...

_random_ 13y ago

And all latest Microsoft technologies are Open Source as well by the way.