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I haven't used any Apple machine since 2004. Some HN'ers like Apple, so I've been kind of interested to see what Apple machines do that PC's don't. But I don'

by csense 13y ago

I haven't used any Apple machine since 2004. Some HN'ers like Apple, so I've been kind of interested to see what Apple machines do that PC's don't. But I don't want to pay premium prices for iGoods. Does this mean I can run the new OS in a VM to check out the Apple ecosystem? Or is this only free (as in beer) to people who have an existing paid license for a previous Apple operating system?

Touche 13y ago
You can't legally run an OSX VM on a non-Apple computer.
- sarreph 13y ago
  FYI: http://www.lockergnome.com/osx/2012/02/24/are-hackintosh-computers-legal/ http://www.lockergnome.com/osx/2012/02/24/are-hackintosh-com...
  - nwhitehead 13y ago
    That article agrees with Touche, unless I'm missing something. EULA: "[you are free] to install, use and run up to two (2) additional copies or instances of the Apple Software within virtual operating system environments on each Mac Computer you own or control that is already running the Apple Software."
georgemcbay 13y ago
You don't need to have an existing paid license(1), but you do need to run it on Apple Mac hardware. Non-Apple hardware and VMs are not supported, don't work without some significant hacking and are forbidden by EULA. (1) Practically speaking if you have a machine capable of running this legally, you also have an existing paid license for MacOS, so this is mostly a theoretical difference.
- sjmulder 13y ago
  Actually, you are allowed (and certainly able to) run OS X in up to two VMs. I installed 10.8 in VMware Fusion 5 and it was a breeze.
cmyr 13y ago
For what it's worth, the 'premium prices' argument is starting to sound a little dated.
- AwayMachine 13y ago
  Macbook Air starts at $999. All I want to do is browse the Internet. I could buy 3 Chromebooks for the price of that Macbook Air. Or 1 Chromebook and save money.
  - meepmorp 13y ago
    But that's not an argument that the MBA is overpriced, it's an argument that you don't need anything as powerful as an an MBA. Which is fine, but beside the point.
  - officemonkey 13y ago
    If all you want to do is browse the Internet, why are you buying a Macbook Air? Buy a $100 Android tablet and call it a day.
  - jshen 13y ago
    A honda accord starts at $20k. All I want to do is get to my cousins house three blocks down the street. I could buy 20 bicycles for that price or buy 1 and save money. This doesn't mean the honda is overpriced, correct? Your entire comment is a non sequitur.
  - csense 13y ago
    I bought my current laptop in late 2011 for $750. Specs are 4 GB (which I cheaply upgraded to 8GB right away), GT 540M (1GB dedicated graphics memory), Core i7 @ 2.2 GHz, USB 3.0. Looking at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Macbook_air http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Macbook_air, in terms of specs it blows away even today's Macbooks -- two years later! Moral: If you're looking at the higher end of the performance/price spectrum because you do things like gaming and compiling large programs like the Linux kernel, Macbooks aren't just overpriced, they're underpowered.
gnur 13y ago
Apple devices aren't really that overpriced. Try to get a comparable device (power, weight, battery life, slimness) for the same price and it's harder then you think. If you can find me a good alternative for a 11" macbook air for less then an macbook air I'd be delighted to hear what it is because I've been dying for a good ultralight laptop that can run ubuntu without dealing with efi/uefi/bootcamp stuff.
- lmm 13y ago
  I've been very happy with my Samsung NP900X1B, which was much better value than an air for me at the time I bought it. (There's probably a newer equivalent model nowadays)
- ansgri 13y ago
  efi/uefi seems to be a solved problem for ubuntu. I'm running Linux Mint on Asus UX31A (which would be best laptop ever if it was more reliable) installed all-by-default without _any_ problems, even with hotkeys and touchpad. Also a colleague of mine happily runs Fedora on UX32A.
  - gnur 13y ago
    On other devices this is true, but on my macbook air I keep having issues where I either have to wait for several seconds (10-20) at a black screen with a blinking underscore or that the options in the boot menu don't correspond with what gets booted. (mind you, I have been using ubuntu for at least 7 years now but the macbook air is the only device I couldn't install it reliably, guess it's even worse then using Windows on mac hardware :))
- EricDeb 13y ago
  I'll agree with you with respect to laptops. Desktops are a different story. Non-Mac desktops are much cheaper, especially if you choose to build it yourself.
jebblue 13y ago
>> so I've been kind of interested to see what Apple machines do that PC's don't. My PC runs Ubuntu Linux and I can't think of anything I would need a Mac can do for me that my PC can't.
njr123 13y ago
If you only care about CPU speed and memory, then apple is going to seem pretty overpriced. But if you also care about weight, battery life and build quality, then apple is almost then only option. Not only is there no cheaper option from the PC companies, theres not really anything comparable for any price.
Udo 13y ago
I've switched to OS X exclusively about ten years ago. The reasons for choosing tech platforms are always personal, based on a combination of perception and actual benefits, and how those benefits are subjectively weighed against the drawbacks. So I can only answer that from a personal point of view. > so I've been kind of interested to see what Apple machines do that PC's don't. They run OS X. The hardware is nice, too, but if that was the only selling point I would probably buy cheaper and more powerful PCs. > But I don't want to pay premium prices for iGoods. Then don't. We don't all have the same preferences and usage patterns. If using Apple stuff doesn't hold any benefits for you, that's totally fine and reasonable. Contrary to many Apple users, I do believe their hardware is quite expensive. The question is if it's worth it. For me, that answer is "yes" at the moment, though that may change. > Does this mean I can run the new OS in a VM to check out the Apple ecosystem? I'm not sure if you can legally check out OS X in a VM, but technically that option has been available for some time. However, I don't see why anyone would. Doing actual work inside a VM is bound to be painful.

by csense 13y ago

Touche 13y ago

You can't legally run an OSX VM on a non-Apple computer.

sarreph 13y ago
FYI: http://www.lockergnome.com/osx/2012/02/24/are-hackintosh-computers-legal/ http://www.lockergnome.com/osx/2012/02/24/are-hackintosh-com...
- nwhitehead 13y ago
  That article agrees with Touche, unless I'm missing something. EULA: "[you are free] to install, use and run up to two (2) additional copies or instances of the Apple Software within virtual operating system environments on each Mac Computer you own or control that is already running the Apple Software."

georgemcbay 13y ago

You don't need to have an existing paid license(1), but you do need to run it on Apple Mac hardware. Non-Apple hardware and VMs are not supported, don't work without some significant hacking and are forbidden by EULA. (1) Practically speaking if you have a machine capable of running this legally, you also have an existing paid license for MacOS, so this is mostly a theoretical difference.

sjmulder 13y ago
Actually, you are allowed (and certainly able to) run OS X in up to two VMs. I installed 10.8 in VMware Fusion 5 and it was a breeze.

cmyr 13y ago

For what it's worth, the 'premium prices' argument is starting to sound a little dated.

AwayMachine 13y ago
Macbook Air starts at $999. All I want to do is browse the Internet. I could buy 3 Chromebooks for the price of that Macbook Air. Or 1 Chromebook and save money.
- meepmorp 13y ago
  But that's not an argument that the MBA is overpriced, it's an argument that you don't need anything as powerful as an an MBA. Which is fine, but beside the point.
- officemonkey 13y ago
  If all you want to do is browse the Internet, why are you buying a Macbook Air? Buy a $100 Android tablet and call it a day.
- jshen 13y ago
  A honda accord starts at $20k. All I want to do is get to my cousins house three blocks down the street. I could buy 20 bicycles for that price or buy 1 and save money. This doesn't mean the honda is overpriced, correct? Your entire comment is a non sequitur.
- csense 13y ago
  I bought my current laptop in late 2011 for $750. Specs are 4 GB (which I cheaply upgraded to 8GB right away), GT 540M (1GB dedicated graphics memory), Core i7 @ 2.2 GHz, USB 3.0. Looking at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Macbook_air http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Macbook_air, in terms of specs it blows away even today's Macbooks -- two years later! Moral: If you're looking at the higher end of the performance/price spectrum because you do things like gaming and compiling large programs like the Linux kernel, Macbooks aren't just overpriced, they're underpowered.

gnur 13y ago

Apple devices aren't really that overpriced. Try to get a comparable device (power, weight, battery life, slimness) for the same price and it's harder then you think. If you can find me a good alternative for a 11" macbook air for less then an macbook air I'd be delighted to hear what it is because I've been dying for a good ultralight laptop that can run ubuntu without dealing with efi/uefi/bootcamp stuff.

lmm 13y ago
I've been very happy with my Samsung NP900X1B, which was much better value than an air for me at the time I bought it. (There's probably a newer equivalent model nowadays)
ansgri 13y ago
efi/uefi seems to be a solved problem for ubuntu. I'm running Linux Mint on Asus UX31A (which would be best laptop ever if it was more reliable) installed all-by-default without _any_ problems, even with hotkeys and touchpad. Also a colleague of mine happily runs Fedora on UX32A.
- gnur 13y ago
  On other devices this is true, but on my macbook air I keep having issues where I either have to wait for several seconds (10-20) at a black screen with a blinking underscore or that the options in the boot menu don't correspond with what gets booted. (mind you, I have been using ubuntu for at least 7 years now but the macbook air is the only device I couldn't install it reliably, guess it's even worse then using Windows on mac hardware :))
EricDeb 13y ago
I'll agree with you with respect to laptops. Desktops are a different story. Non-Mac desktops are much cheaper, especially if you choose to build it yourself.

jebblue 13y ago

>> so I've been kind of interested to see what Apple machines do that PC's don't. My PC runs Ubuntu Linux and I can't think of anything I would need a Mac can do for me that my PC can't.

njr123 13y ago

If you only care about CPU speed and memory, then apple is going to seem pretty overpriced. But if you also care about weight, battery life and build quality, then apple is almost then only option. Not only is there no cheaper option from the PC companies, theres not really anything comparable for any price.

Udo 13y ago

I've switched to OS X exclusively about ten years ago. The reasons for choosing tech platforms are always personal, based on a combination of perception and actual benefits, and how those benefits are subjectively weighed against the drawbacks. So I can only answer that from a personal point of view. > so I've been kind of interested to see what Apple machines do that PC's don't. They run OS X. The hardware is nice, too, but if that was the only selling point I would probably buy cheaper and more powerful PCs. > But I don't want to pay premium prices for iGoods. Then don't. We don't all have the same preferences and usage patterns. If using Apple stuff doesn't hold any benefits for you, that's totally fine and reasonable. Contrary to many Apple users, I do believe their hardware is quite expensive. The question is if it's worth it. For me, that answer is "yes" at the moment, though that may change. > Does this mean I can run the new OS in a VM to check out the Apple ecosystem? I'm not sure if you can legally check out OS X in a VM, but technically that option has been available for some time. However, I don't see why anyone would. Doing actual work inside a VM is bound to be painful.