4 ms·

So their new commercial for the iPad focuses on the fact that so many people use it for productivity, so why can't Apple create a decent, first-party pressure s

by phaus 13y ago

So their new commercial for the iPad focuses on the fact that so many people use it for productivity, so why can't Apple create a decent, first-party pressure sensitive stylus, so we don't have to deal with expensive, clunky, third-party solutions.

arbitrage 13y ago
Obviously because Apple does not want you to use a stylus with it. Or perhaps, they don't want to be the ones to tell you that you could use a stylus with it if you wanted. They want to perpetuate the idea that it's self contained; a stylus would contradict that.
enraged_camel 13y ago
Steve Jobs said it best: "if you see a stylus, they blew it."
- 51Cards 13y ago
  That statement gets used a lot to downplay the concept of a stylus, and in that context it is flatly incorrect to be blunt. Viewing it that ways makes the assumption that you intent to use a stylus as a finger replacement. The finger and the stylus are different input devices with different levels of ease of use and accuracy. It is wrong to assume they are meant to accomplish the same tasks. No device should be limited to either one... finger or stylus. I use the stylus to draw on my Surface and quite frankly I love what it allows me to do. But when I go back to surfing, fingers all the way.
- biot 13y ago
  Steve Jobs also said you'd have to sharpen your fingers to use a tablet smaller than the full-sized iPad. :)
- fumar 13y ago
  Lets pretend paper is the leading technology for communication. The leader in the paper industry thinks you should write/draw with your finger. You have ten of them. But, some people, need more precision than a human finger allows. They use an object with a finer point than our fingers. But, the rest of us are okay with just finger painting. The paper was designed to be large enough for fingers to use. It would be nice to sometimes use a different input method on paper when the finger won't cut it. I see nothing wrong with having more than one input method. There is no right or wrong way.
- oftenwrong 13y ago
  Maybe Steve Jobs was wrong. Ship it without a stylus. Require that all apps be usable with fingers. Make a sweet pressure-sensitive stylus available for extra precision. Everyone wins.
  - elliotanderson 13y ago
    Plenty of third parties already filling that space - I don't think Apple sees the need to move in that direction.
    - phaus 13y ago
      They are doing a piss poor job of filling that space because all they can do is work within the limitations of the capacitive touch screen and/or the wireless capabilities of the device. If Apple implemented a proper digitizer, it would be far better than any third party solution.
- misuba 13y ago
  For core usage he was right, but: I'll bet you Steve owned a pen. I'll bet you it was great. And I'll bet you he used it a lot.
- theguycalledtom 13y ago
  He was talking about driving the interface. The iPad has been designed from the ground up with capactive touch so that you can navigate an iPad with your fingers. Adding a pen digitiser changes nothing.
- jasonlotito 13y ago
  Steve Jobs also said you'd write your apps for the iPhone using JavaScript. Or that you don't need multitasking. Here's the thing, it's not the stylus that is the problem. It's the dependency on a stylus. There is a difference between doing it, and doing it right.
- hippee-lee 13y ago
  I would wager that Steve Jobs was not very interested in drawing or painting. I'll bet he would understand someone who was into drawing and painting who used a stylus, especially a pressure sensitive stylus.
DonPellegrino 13y ago
Jobs was strongly against the stylus and famously said something like "God gave us 10 styluses at birth". Maybe part of his legacy is a company filled with people having the same opinion.
- nooneelse 13y ago
  Yeah, and we learn to finger-paint very early, it being quite intuitive and all... but then we grow up and the overwhelming majority of people learn to use writing implements (and other such tools of numerous sorts). I haven't been able, nor wanted to, turn in finger-painted work since early elementary school. Adults use pens (and other such) to write, as well they should, since doing so increases the efficiency of complex output from mind to page.
  - misuba 13y ago
    And the iPad is growing up too, and can extend itself into new kinds of usage with new, _supplementary_ kinds of input.
- phaus 13y ago
  Steve Jobs isn't working at Apple anymore. He was great for Apple, but they aren't obligated to agree with every idea that he ever had, and integrate them into their business model. He has often said that he thought something was stupid. More often than not, at the time he said these things, he was right. He once disliked the entire idea of the tablet, because the technology hadn't matured enough to deliver a positive experience for the customer. Long after he criticized tablets, he introduced the iPad to the world. It doesn't mean he's a hypocrite, it just means that the technology matured enough to change his mind. Its hard to argue that Wacom technology isn't sufficiently mature, and there is clearly a market for such a thing. Art and note-taking apps are wildly popular. Both would be significantly enhanced by the presence of a true touch-sensitive stylus. Apple didn't intend for the iPad to be a content creation device, but now they seem to be embracing it as such, because that's what many customers want to do with it. If a person never changes his mind about anything, that person has stopped learning.
snowwrestler 13y ago
Why do you think that an Apple stylus would be any less expensive or clunky?
- phaus 13y ago
  Because every other tablet pc/tablet with a integrated pressure-sensitive stylus is much better than anything released thus far for the iPad by third parties.
  - snowwrestler 13y ago
    Samsung and Microsoft license Wacom digitizer technology for their stylus tablets. It's not just that they provide a stylus--the tablet itself has additional capacitive sensors. Apple would have to totally re-engineer their touch sensor to accomodate that. The reason iPad styluses have fat tips is that they have to simulate a fingertip, which is the only thing that an iPad can sense. The tradeoff is that an iPad is faster and more accurate at sensing fingers than other tablets. Wacom has released a pressure-sensitive stylus for iPad. I have not tried it though...not much of an artist.
    - phaus 13y ago
      The digitizer is actually a separate layer in most cases. There are lots of products that have both a digitizer and a capacitive touch layer. The lack of a digitizer isn't what makes the iPad more responsive. If Apple wanted to do it, it would be trivial. Wacom fucked up this particular product, because they opted to use a large rubber tip. It might be more precise than a normal dumb stylus, but its still terrible. Trying to write like a normal person, or draw thin lines is absolutely horrible with a fat-tipped stylus.
      - snowwrestler 13y ago
        I think the large rubber tip is not optional, as the iPad sensor is looking for a particular shape: a fingertip.
etchalon 13y ago
There are quite a few third-party styli available for purchase. Apple doesn't want to include one because they don't want developers assuming the user has a stylus, and thus, crafting interfaces that require that level of precision. The iPad/iOS is about touch. If the argument is that Apple should build one, but not include it by default, specifically for people who need one, I guess the response is "Why bother?"
- m_mueller 13y ago
  A stylus for a capacitive touch screen needs to be deeply integrated to work well - i.e. it needs some sensors along with the screen to anchor its position, simply because capacitive screen don't work well with pointy counterparts. That's why the stylus of MS surface is way better than any third party solution for iPad as far as I understand. IMO Apple should integrate appropriate sensors and release an API for stylus makers or create it as an accessory themselves. I've bought two iPads since its initial release, and they work very well for me for some light browsing, but in order to integrate it into my workflow it'd have to become better at note taking. I loved the MS Courier concept, it's too bad they instead created a solution that does everything, but nothing really well - you can either have desktop OneNote that only works with a stylus or mobile OneNote with nowhere near the features you'd need. Apple's iPad apps tend to have exactly the features you need except stylus support - so there's that.
JohnTHaller 13y ago
The iPad doesn't have the same finger+stylus sensor tech that other tablets like the Samsung and Microsoft ones have. A real stylus simply won't work on an iPad because the iPad lacks the technology. So, as much as Apple says the iPad is for creative productivity, you won't find professionals using it like this: http://www.penny-arcade.com/2013/02/22/the-ms-surface-pro http://www.penny-arcade.com/2013/02/22/the-ms-surface-pro

by phaus 13y ago

arbitrage 13y ago

Obviously because Apple does not want you to use a stylus with it. Or perhaps, they don't want to be the ones to tell you that you could use a stylus with it if you wanted. They want to perpetuate the idea that it's self contained; a stylus would contradict that.

enraged_camel 13y ago

Steve Jobs said it best: "if you see a stylus, they blew it."

51Cards 13y ago
That statement gets used a lot to downplay the concept of a stylus, and in that context it is flatly incorrect to be blunt. Viewing it that ways makes the assumption that you intent to use a stylus as a finger replacement. The finger and the stylus are different input devices with different levels of ease of use and accuracy. It is wrong to assume they are meant to accomplish the same tasks. No device should be limited to either one... finger or stylus. I use the stylus to draw on my Surface and quite frankly I love what it allows me to do. But when I go back to surfing, fingers all the way.
biot 13y ago
Steve Jobs also said you'd have to sharpen your fingers to use a tablet smaller than the full-sized iPad. :)
fumar 13y ago
Lets pretend paper is the leading technology for communication. The leader in the paper industry thinks you should write/draw with your finger. You have ten of them. But, some people, need more precision than a human finger allows. They use an object with a finer point than our fingers. But, the rest of us are okay with just finger painting. The paper was designed to be large enough for fingers to use. It would be nice to sometimes use a different input method on paper when the finger won't cut it. I see nothing wrong with having more than one input method. There is no right or wrong way.
oftenwrong 13y ago
Maybe Steve Jobs was wrong. Ship it without a stylus. Require that all apps be usable with fingers. Make a sweet pressure-sensitive stylus available for extra precision. Everyone wins.
- elliotanderson 13y ago
  Plenty of third parties already filling that space - I don't think Apple sees the need to move in that direction.
  - phaus 13y ago
    They are doing a piss poor job of filling that space because all they can do is work within the limitations of the capacitive touch screen and/or the wireless capabilities of the device. If Apple implemented a proper digitizer, it would be far better than any third party solution.
misuba 13y ago
For core usage he was right, but: I'll bet you Steve owned a pen. I'll bet you it was great. And I'll bet you he used it a lot.
theguycalledtom 13y ago
He was talking about driving the interface. The iPad has been designed from the ground up with capactive touch so that you can navigate an iPad with your fingers. Adding a pen digitiser changes nothing.
jasonlotito 13y ago
Steve Jobs also said you'd write your apps for the iPhone using JavaScript. Or that you don't need multitasking. Here's the thing, it's not the stylus that is the problem. It's the dependency on a stylus. There is a difference between doing it, and doing it right.
hippee-lee 13y ago
I would wager that Steve Jobs was not very interested in drawing or painting. I'll bet he would understand someone who was into drawing and painting who used a stylus, especially a pressure sensitive stylus.

DonPellegrino 13y ago

Jobs was strongly against the stylus and famously said something like "God gave us 10 styluses at birth". Maybe part of his legacy is a company filled with people having the same opinion.

nooneelse 13y ago
Yeah, and we learn to finger-paint very early, it being quite intuitive and all... but then we grow up and the overwhelming majority of people learn to use writing implements (and other such tools of numerous sorts). I haven't been able, nor wanted to, turn in finger-painted work since early elementary school. Adults use pens (and other such) to write, as well they should, since doing so increases the efficiency of complex output from mind to page.
- misuba 13y ago
  And the iPad is growing up too, and can extend itself into new kinds of usage with new, _supplementary_ kinds of input.
phaus 13y ago
Steve Jobs isn't working at Apple anymore. He was great for Apple, but they aren't obligated to agree with every idea that he ever had, and integrate them into their business model. He has often said that he thought something was stupid. More often than not, at the time he said these things, he was right. He once disliked the entire idea of the tablet, because the technology hadn't matured enough to deliver a positive experience for the customer. Long after he criticized tablets, he introduced the iPad to the world. It doesn't mean he's a hypocrite, it just means that the technology matured enough to change his mind. Its hard to argue that Wacom technology isn't sufficiently mature, and there is clearly a market for such a thing. Art and note-taking apps are wildly popular. Both would be significantly enhanced by the presence of a true touch-sensitive stylus. Apple didn't intend for the iPad to be a content creation device, but now they seem to be embracing it as such, because that's what many customers want to do with it. If a person never changes his mind about anything, that person has stopped learning.

snowwrestler 13y ago

Why do you think that an Apple stylus would be any less expensive or clunky?

phaus 13y ago
Because every other tablet pc/tablet with a integrated pressure-sensitive stylus is much better than anything released thus far for the iPad by third parties.
- snowwrestler 13y ago
  Samsung and Microsoft license Wacom digitizer technology for their stylus tablets. It's not just that they provide a stylus--the tablet itself has additional capacitive sensors. Apple would have to totally re-engineer their touch sensor to accomodate that. The reason iPad styluses have fat tips is that they have to simulate a fingertip, which is the only thing that an iPad can sense. The tradeoff is that an iPad is faster and more accurate at sensing fingers than other tablets. Wacom has released a pressure-sensitive stylus for iPad. I have not tried it though...not much of an artist.
  - phaus 13y ago
    The digitizer is actually a separate layer in most cases. There are lots of products that have both a digitizer and a capacitive touch layer. The lack of a digitizer isn't what makes the iPad more responsive. If Apple wanted to do it, it would be trivial. Wacom fucked up this particular product, because they opted to use a large rubber tip. It might be more precise than a normal dumb stylus, but its still terrible. Trying to write like a normal person, or draw thin lines is absolutely horrible with a fat-tipped stylus.
    - snowwrestler 13y ago
      I think the large rubber tip is not optional, as the iPad sensor is looking for a particular shape: a fingertip.

etchalon 13y ago

There are quite a few third-party styli available for purchase. Apple doesn't want to include one because they don't want developers assuming the user has a stylus, and thus, crafting interfaces that require that level of precision. The iPad/iOS is about touch. If the argument is that Apple should build one, but not include it by default, specifically for people who need one, I guess the response is "Why bother?"

m_mueller 13y ago
A stylus for a capacitive touch screen needs to be deeply integrated to work well - i.e. it needs some sensors along with the screen to anchor its position, simply because capacitive screen don't work well with pointy counterparts. That's why the stylus of MS surface is way better than any third party solution for iPad as far as I understand. IMO Apple should integrate appropriate sensors and release an API for stylus makers or create it as an accessory themselves. I've bought two iPads since its initial release, and they work very well for me for some light browsing, but in order to integrate it into my workflow it'd have to become better at note taking. I loved the MS Courier concept, it's too bad they instead created a solution that does everything, but nothing really well - you can either have desktop OneNote that only works with a stylus or mobile OneNote with nowhere near the features you'd need. Apple's iPad apps tend to have exactly the features you need except stylus support - so there's that.

JohnTHaller 13y ago

The iPad doesn't have the same finger+stylus sensor tech that other tablets like the Samsung and Microsoft ones have. A real stylus simply won't work on an iPad because the iPad lacks the technology. So, as much as Apple says the iPad is for creative productivity, you won't find professionals using it like this: http://www.penny-arcade.com/2013/02/22/the-ms-surface-pro http://www.penny-arcade.com/2013/02/22/the-ms-surface-pro