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Where do I get my 25% refund from AdWords? This is a significant sum to me.

by cylinder 13y ago

ars 13y ago
Isn't AdWords an auction of sorts? If so then this 25% is already baked in.
- unclebucknasty 13y ago
  I don't understand that conclusion. Don't people place bids based on the perceived value of the keyword? If so, wouldn't everyone need to discount that value by 25% because they are aware of the fraud in order for it to be "baked in"?
  - dangrossman 13y ago
    People will bid as much as they can afford while achieving a positive ROI. If you can't, someone who's earning more dollars per click will, and they'll get the slot instead. If 100 clicks generates $100 in gross profit for the company with the best customer LTV, nobody's going to bid more than $1 per click. That $1 per click already factors in the discount due to fraud. If all the clicks were real, qualified visits, they'd have earned more than $100 per 100 clicks, and would be able bid more than $1 per click. As long as there are enough people participating in the auction, it will naturally account for the quality of the traffic, whatever the reasons behind that quality may be.
    - unclebucknasty 13y ago
      Thanks. I can see the logic. OTOH, doesn't this require perfect efficiency and for all bidders to know perfectly their ROI, etc.? Any holes, unintentionally irrational behavior, etc. and the fraud "leaks" into the price, right? So, for instance, any "unprofitable" advertising on behalf of any participants would seem to automatically cause the fraud to be reflected in the price. Based on personal experience, I would guess that there's a pretty long tail of advertisers who never realize an ROI while spending a considerable sum seeking it! Even those that eventually profit likely spend a good bit of money ramping up, all the while paying for fraud in the process and helping to support a fraud-inflated CPC overall.
charleslmunger 13y ago
Google wasn't mentioned at all in the article, which is somewhat odd... are they immune to this type of fraud? Or at least more resistant?
- dangrossman 13y ago
  They're not immune, but they're among the best at detecting it. They have more traffic and click data to use to identify the patterns than any other company in the world. Most AdWords advertisers would probably be surprised to see that they're only being charged for 75% or less of the clicks on their ads already. They simply never show up in the performance reports or on the bill. To see them, log in to AdWords, click on a campaign, click the "Dimensions" tab, choose the "View: Day" filter, click "Customize Columns", choose the "Performance" category, and add the "Invalid Clicks" column to the report. Now you'll see the huge number of clicks Google received on your ads but never charged you for. It's also common to see adjustment entries on the billing report labeled "click quality". Those are automatic refunds for potentially fraudulent clicks given after-the-fact when they couldn't be caught in real-time.
  - CrankyPants 13y ago
    They've become considerably less transparent about fraud-related adjustments in recent months, both in the UI, and on invoices. Employees who seek clarification tend to get very little in the way of answers. Not saying anything shady is happening, just that they've made big changes and aren't communicating properly about them.

Where do I get my 25% refund from AdWords? This is a significant sum to me.

ars 13y ago

Isn't AdWords an auction of sorts? If so then this 25% is already baked in.

unclebucknasty 13y ago
I don't understand that conclusion. Don't people place bids based on the perceived value of the keyword? If so, wouldn't everyone need to discount that value by 25% because they are aware of the fraud in order for it to be "baked in"?
- dangrossman 13y ago
  People will bid as much as they can afford while achieving a positive ROI. If you can't, someone who's earning more dollars per click will, and they'll get the slot instead. If 100 clicks generates $100 in gross profit for the company with the best customer LTV, nobody's going to bid more than $1 per click. That $1 per click already factors in the discount due to fraud. If all the clicks were real, qualified visits, they'd have earned more than $100 per 100 clicks, and would be able bid more than $1 per click. As long as there are enough people participating in the auction, it will naturally account for the quality of the traffic, whatever the reasons behind that quality may be.
  - unclebucknasty 13y ago
    Thanks. I can see the logic. OTOH, doesn't this require perfect efficiency and for all bidders to know perfectly their ROI, etc.? Any holes, unintentionally irrational behavior, etc. and the fraud "leaks" into the price, right? So, for instance, any "unprofitable" advertising on behalf of any participants would seem to automatically cause the fraud to be reflected in the price. Based on personal experience, I would guess that there's a pretty long tail of advertisers who never realize an ROI while spending a considerable sum seeking it! Even those that eventually profit likely spend a good bit of money ramping up, all the while paying for fraud in the process and helping to support a fraud-inflated CPC overall.

charleslmunger 13y ago

Google wasn't mentioned at all in the article, which is somewhat odd... are they immune to this type of fraud? Or at least more resistant?

dangrossman 13y ago
They're not immune, but they're among the best at detecting it. They have more traffic and click data to use to identify the patterns than any other company in the world. Most AdWords advertisers would probably be surprised to see that they're only being charged for 75% or less of the clicks on their ads already. They simply never show up in the performance reports or on the bill. To see them, log in to AdWords, click on a campaign, click the "Dimensions" tab, choose the "View: Day" filter, click "Customize Columns", choose the "Performance" category, and add the "Invalid Clicks" column to the report. Now you'll see the huge number of clicks Google received on your ads but never charged you for. It's also common to see adjustment entries on the billing report labeled "click quality". Those are automatic refunds for potentially fraudulent clicks given after-the-fact when they couldn't be caught in real-time.
- CrankyPants 13y ago
  They've become considerably less transparent about fraud-related adjustments in recent months, both in the UI, and on invoices. Employees who seek clarification tend to get very little in the way of answers. Not saying anything shady is happening, just that they've made big changes and aren't communicating properly about them.