4 ms·

Conceptual Introduction to Web Development

49 points by mdaverde 13y ago

RodericDay 13y ago
This is really important, and the kind of thing that was glaringly missing when people replied to my newbie questions. There is a whole "big-picture" aspect that is glossed over by experts, especially experts that were guided throughout in internships and first-jobs. I would say that the obstacle for an average joe to get his ideas up in the web on some capacity is not HTML/CSS/JS/Backbone programming knowledge, but deployment. People who say Heroku is braindead simple are not seeing the bigger picture (although it is great).
ancarda 13y ago
Nitpick: The JS heartbeat can be done in CSS3, otherwise this is great!
- Isofarro 13y ago
  Nitpick: it can also be done in JavaScript.
  - nicklovescode 13y ago
    Both your comment and its parent are right. It could[0] even be done in HTML with <blink> It should be done in CSS. 0. Not even sure if blink still exists, or if you can set it to animate, but my point stands that best practices are important.
    - jmstout 13y ago
      According to Mozilla Developer Docs <blink> is non-standard and deprecated. RIP blink tag. https://developer.mozilla.org/en-US/docs/Web/HTML/Element/blink https://developer.mozilla.org/en-US/docs/Web/HTML/Element/bl...
    - frogpelt 13y ago
      It should be done in CSS. Not if you want to show a simple JS example.
      - nicklovescode 13y ago
        My point is that there are many examples to show. Why pick one using bad practice?
- nicklovescode 13y ago
  Can someone who downvoted arcarda explain their reasoning? I agree that the animation should be in CSS(3), or at least not JS(leaving it out animation entirely might be best). There are plenty of examples you could show in JS that would better show that it is where logic and behavior is stored. How about setting a textbox or showing an alert?
oulipian 13y ago
This is a good idea, but a conceptual introduction to web development that dismisses UI/UX as "basically, what makes sites look good" is not one I could ever recommend to anyone.
thenerdfiles 13y ago
1. "The Web is fundamentally a distributed hypermedia application." 2. We build architecture substrates for the space of URLs (URL-Space): URL-Driven Development. (This is ultimate a Language Problem-set/Conept.) 3. I try to practice Hypermedia-based View Methodology, and the notion of "Creative Encounter with Digital Artefacts" (recommendation engines that use "imaginary rules") is becoming a viable system of thought. I believe these points were not made. What are the alternative ideas? This OP only discusses the stuff underneath, not the conceptual overhead or the conceptual scheme of Web development. We want to build Web applications that evolve, and which can last throughout generations. None of this was even remotely addressed.
clienthunter 13y ago
Looking back on my years of PHP pain, I feel it would be a commendable thing to end this article with just a small sentence on the importance of choosing the right tool for the job. 10 years ago I would have read this and gone off to learn PHP and MySQL.
- jrochkind1 13y ago
  I don't know if that's neccesarily the wrong way to get started, PHP and MySQL. It's how most of _us_ got started, right? (Okay, I got started in Perl, and only dabbled in PHP).
  - clienthunter 13y ago
    You started in Perl? That's hardcore. The PHP/MySQL was ok back then, but there's so many great alternatives with great exposure today. Aside from ease of deployment, I don't see what benefits there are now.
    - CWIZO 13y ago
      My girlfriend is just starting learning web development. She now has a very basic understanding of HTML and CSS. Then she went to Rails Girls London to learn a bit about the backend. Unfortunately (and I know as I was a mentor at one of this events) RoR is completely unsuitable for a beginner. It took me one hour to explain what a console is, and she still doesn't really know what to do with it. She had all this questions like "what is a controller", "umm how do I open this page now again?", "umm how do I do X", "how do I do Y". Now contrast this with PHP. I setup a simple server, install PHP, get it started and then just tell her "create a new file called 'index.php' save it in this location, then open your browser and enter localhost/index.php". That's it. She doesn't need to know about generating controllers and rakes and db migrations and what not. Open text editor, put html in there, put some PHP in there. That's it. Seriously, PHP is perfect for a beginner. She can learn about MVC later. Right now all she wants to do is to create something and have it work. She really doesn't need to know about adding model validators and what not. And from what I know about Python it's the same deal as with Ruby. You just can't create a file and start writing a web page without pulling in a bunch of boilerplate. So bottom line is: yeah PHP is way relevant today.
apsurd 13y ago
Here's a similar conceptual overview of "how the web works" in terms of client-server operations but done in a more interactive diagram style: http://nilclass.com/ http://nilclass.com/ It's a work in progress which helped me get a lot better at d3.js but I truly believe in this style of teaching as foundational knowledge. I think one of the best things veterans can give to newbies is _awareness_ and _perspective_.
jafaku 13y ago
Why are you using jQuery without including it? Isn't that going to confuse the beginners?

49 points by mdaverde 13y ago

This is really important, and the kind of thing that was glaringly missing when people replied to my newbie questions. There is a whole "big-picture" aspect that is glossed over by experts, especially experts that were guided throughout in internships and first-jobs. I would say that the obstacle for an average joe to get his ideas up in the web on some capacity is not HTML/CSS/JS/Backbone programming knowledge, but deployment. People who say Heroku is braindead simple are not seeing the bigger picture (although it is great).

ancarda 13y ago

Nitpick: The JS heartbeat can be done in CSS3, otherwise this is great!

Isofarro 13y ago
Nitpick: it can also be done in JavaScript.
- nicklovescode 13y ago
  Both your comment and its parent are right. It could[0] even be done in HTML with <blink> It should be done in CSS. 0. Not even sure if blink still exists, or if you can set it to animate, but my point stands that best practices are important.
  - jmstout 13y ago
    According to Mozilla Developer Docs <blink> is non-standard and deprecated. RIP blink tag. https://developer.mozilla.org/en-US/docs/Web/HTML/Element/blink https://developer.mozilla.org/en-US/docs/Web/HTML/Element/bl...
  - frogpelt 13y ago
    It should be done in CSS. Not if you want to show a simple JS example.
    - nicklovescode 13y ago
      My point is that there are many examples to show. Why pick one using bad practice?
nicklovescode 13y ago
Can someone who downvoted arcarda explain their reasoning? I agree that the animation should be in CSS(3), or at least not JS(leaving it out animation entirely might be best). There are plenty of examples you could show in JS that would better show that it is where logic and behavior is stored. How about setting a textbox or showing an alert?

oulipian 13y ago

This is a good idea, but a conceptual introduction to web development that dismisses UI/UX as "basically, what makes sites look good" is not one I could ever recommend to anyone.

thenerdfiles 13y ago

1. "The Web is fundamentally a distributed hypermedia application." 2. We build architecture substrates for the space of URLs (URL-Space): URL-Driven Development. (This is ultimate a Language Problem-set/Conept.) 3. I try to practice Hypermedia-based View Methodology, and the notion of "Creative Encounter with Digital Artefacts" (recommendation engines that use "imaginary rules") is becoming a viable system of thought. I believe these points were not made. What are the alternative ideas? This OP only discusses the stuff underneath, not the conceptual overhead or the conceptual scheme of Web development. We want to build Web applications that evolve, and which can last throughout generations. None of this was even remotely addressed.

clienthunter 13y ago

Looking back on my years of PHP pain, I feel it would be a commendable thing to end this article with just a small sentence on the importance of choosing the right tool for the job. 10 years ago I would have read this and gone off to learn PHP and MySQL.

jrochkind1 13y ago
I don't know if that's neccesarily the wrong way to get started, PHP and MySQL. It's how most of _us_ got started, right? (Okay, I got started in Perl, and only dabbled in PHP).
- clienthunter 13y ago
  You started in Perl? That's hardcore. The PHP/MySQL was ok back then, but there's so many great alternatives with great exposure today. Aside from ease of deployment, I don't see what benefits there are now.
  - CWIZO 13y ago
    My girlfriend is just starting learning web development. She now has a very basic understanding of HTML and CSS. Then she went to Rails Girls London to learn a bit about the backend. Unfortunately (and I know as I was a mentor at one of this events) RoR is completely unsuitable for a beginner. It took me one hour to explain what a console is, and she still doesn't really know what to do with it. She had all this questions like "what is a controller", "umm how do I open this page now again?", "umm how do I do X", "how do I do Y". Now contrast this with PHP. I setup a simple server, install PHP, get it started and then just tell her "create a new file called 'index.php' save it in this location, then open your browser and enter localhost/index.php". That's it. She doesn't need to know about generating controllers and rakes and db migrations and what not. Open text editor, put html in there, put some PHP in there. That's it. Seriously, PHP is perfect for a beginner. She can learn about MVC later. Right now all she wants to do is to create something and have it work. She really doesn't need to know about adding model validators and what not. And from what I know about Python it's the same deal as with Ruby. You just can't create a file and start writing a web page without pulling in a bunch of boilerplate. So bottom line is: yeah PHP is way relevant today.

apsurd 13y ago

Here's a similar conceptual overview of "how the web works" in terms of client-server operations but done in a more interactive diagram style: http://nilclass.com/ http://nilclass.com/ It's a work in progress which helped me get a lot better at d3.js but I truly believe in this style of teaching as foundational knowledge. I think one of the best things veterans can give to newbies is _awareness_ and _perspective_.

jafaku 13y ago

Why are you using jQuery without including it? Isn't that going to confuse the beginners?