7 ms·

Looking at them like this reminds me how terrible they are -- ergonomics isn't Apple's strong suit. Give me a cheap Logitech mouse any day of the week. Bizarre

Looking at them like this reminds me how terrible they are -- ergonomics isn't Apple's strong suit. Give me a cheap Logitech mouse any day of the week. Bizarrely, Apple's dedication to the "simple" idea of not having a second mouse button results in far more uncomfortable and unintuitive interfaces, featuring an ever increasing melange crazy gestural shortcuts.

gurkendoktor 13y ago
I absolutely agree that their mice suck, but I think the Magic Trackpad is hard to beat. The keyboards aren't too bad either. The glossy screens are another ergonomics nightmare though. With Apple's short keyboard form factor, I can have the alphabet, the "mouse" (trackpad) and the arrow keys all in comfortable reach. Feels much better than my old setup with a vertical mouse & Microsoft ergonomic keyboard.
- oneeyedpigeon 13y ago
  I wish Apple would release a full-size wireless keyboard. I can't stand the smaller one with that annoying fn key and tiny cursor keys. Also, I wonder if Apple will ever cotton on to the fact that quite a lot of us use the '#' symbol from time to time. Other than that, I love their keyboards.
  - escherba 13y ago
    Typing with this keyboard right now: http://matias.ca/laptoppro/mac/ http://matias.ca/laptoppro/mac/ Much better keyboard than Apple's own wireless thingy.
    - scholia 13y ago
      Looks good but it weighs around 2 pounds! There are lighter laptops ;-)
- dzhiurgis 13y ago
  Magic Trackpad is amazing. And 'crazy gestures' actually save you so much useless mouse movements once you customise them - close tab, reopen tab, switch between tabs, refresh, previous page, next page.
- mistercow 13y ago
  Glossy screens are just a matter of preference and your typical environment. There's no denying that as long as you're in a low glare setting, colors look better on a glossy screen. The question is just whether that's the kind of environment you usually work in.
  - judk 13y ago
    Who works in a setting with neither light bulbs nor direct sunlight? There is like one spot on my couch at the perfect time of day when my setting is low glare. And watching movies, which I do, on a TV.
    - lostlogin 13y ago
      Radiology department checking in.
    - mistercow 13y ago
      >Who works in a setting with neither light bulbs nor direct sunlight? You can have bulbs all you like. They just need not to be in the cone in front of the screen where they will reflect distractingly. I usually use my computer while sitting on my bed. Bedside lamps don't cause problems, and there are no lights behind me, so it's fine. In fact, I very rarely notice glare on my screen.
- calinet6 13y ago
  All of the Apple trackpads are pretty incredible. Coming from the PC laptop world, I used to hate trackpads and thought of them as highly inferior devices. I thought the epitome of mobile mousing was the ThinkPad TrackPoint (to keep this discussion PG rated...) and I detested trackpads with a vengeance. Turns out no one had made a good one yet. I got the first unibody MacBook Pro and started to prefer the trackpad over any mouse. That thing is a glorious input device and incredible proof that the fine details really do matter in HCI. The difference between a standard PC trackpad and the Apple Magic Trackpad is slight, but the improvement in the experience is exponential.
- mwfunk 13y ago
  Agreed, they're my favorite keyboards and the trackpads in general (including the Magic Trackpad, which has weaned me off mice altogether) are fantastic. Mice are definitely one area where it seems like the accusations of going with form over function actually hold some water. I'm not sure why this one particular peripheral (especially one that has been so central to their products) has gotten so little love over the years. For example, I actually loved the Mighty Mouse. However, it only takes one attempt to use the weird squeeze buttons on the sides (one on each side, and they have to be pressed simultaneously for it to do anything) to pretty clearly see that those side buttons were an ergonomic nightmare. The means of triggering a right-click were also pretty insane- you had to make sure that you weren't touching any part of the left side of the mouse when you clicked it. I get the engineering tradeoffs that required it to be implemented in this way, but it was really nonintuitive and wasn't documented anywhere as far as I could tell. Lots of people just did ctrl-click for right clicking instead of using the mouse, it was such a hassle. The only saving grace there is that right clicking isn't nearly as fundamental to most Mac UIs as it is on other platforms. It's surprising how many people use Macs every day and don't even know that there is a right click, even though I can't imagine using OS X without it. I pretty much just ctrl-click these days when not using a trackpad or a third-party mouse.
- lostlogin 13y ago
  Don't forget the rear USB slots on the iMac. If you have to plug in multiple times a day you go bat shit crazy. And if, heaven forbid, you tilt the screen to change the angle (in tall) the cable must be free. If someone has pushed the desk back as jammed the cable against the wall, tilting the screen pulls the power cable out. Great stuff.
leoc 13y ago
Both ADB mice were pretty pleasant to use, apart from the softness of the ADB II's mouse button. Control-click has worked as a straightforward substitute for right-click on Macs for a long time now. Interstingly it was Microsoft that really introduced "ergonomic" mouse shapes, with the "Dove bar" mouse http://www.ideo.com/work/mouse-for-microsoft/ http://www.ideo.com/work/mouse-for-microsoft/ and then the Microsoft Mouse 2.0.
- leoc 13y ago
  There's an image of "Carrera", the Microsoft Mouse 2.0 with an interview of (one of?) its designer(s) at http://www.affectivedesign.org/archives/151 http://www.affectivedesign.org/archives/151 .
  - leoc 13y ago
    The MoMA collection page http://www.moma.org/collection/object.php?object_id=3436 http://www.moma.org/collection/object.php?object_id=3436 gives Steven T. Kaneko as the designer, actually.
unsignedint 13y ago
I use a 2008 iMac at work, and there is a lot to be said for ergonomics overall... Including placement of optical drive and SD card (they are located on the right side -- and since optical drive is a trayless type, I almost inserted SD card on the optical drive other day, which would have been catastrophic as I don't think it'd be easy to take it out...) and USB port placement (it's all on the back...)
Samuel_Michon 13y ago
Apple branded mice have had right click functionality since 2005 [1]. However, only a minority of OS X users uses a mouse, and an even smaller group uses contextual menus on a regular basis. [1] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apple_Mighty_Mouse http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apple_Mighty_Mouse
- oneeyedpigeon 13y ago
  Do you have any evidence for those assertions?
  - Samuel_Michon 13y ago
    Sure: over 70% of Macs sold are notebooks. The only Macs that come with Apple branded mice are the iMac and Mac Pro. http://venturebeat.com/2009/01/26/notebooks-now-make-up-over-70-percent-of-mac-sales/ http://venturebeat.com/2009/01/26/notebooks-now-make-up-over...
    - oneeyedpigeon 13y ago
      Colour me surprised. Of course, some of those notebook owners will also use a mouse. And I'm speaking as a Mac Mini user with an Apple branded mouse, but I guess your original point probably stands. I wish I didn't have such a reliance on the mouse, but since transitioning from PC to Mac, one of the few persistent problems has been keyboard shortcut support. I can't tell if I've failed to learn sufficiently, or if it's just lacking, but certain applications - e.g. Finder - just seem to be impossible to navigate without a pointing device.
      - kaolinite 13y ago
        Arrow-keys to move around, cmd+o to open and cmd+shift+g to go to a specific directory - what else do you need?
        oneeyedpigeon 13y ago
RexRollman 13y ago
What's funny is that I actually liked what is considered the worst Apple mouse in history: the hockey puck mouse. For some reason, I just liked it.
- mistercow 13y ago
  I liked it too, but there were two versions. The first version I think is what gave it a bad rap because it was difficult to find the front of the mouse by feel. The second version had a big divot in the button and solved that issue.
snogglethorpe 13y ago
Though I don't like the one-button design, the original Mac mouse was actually really nice, it just felt really solid and responsive, much better than the Logitech optical mice of the same era (which in my experience tended to be really flimsy and temperamental). I suppose it's sort of been all downhill since then, but Apple deserves some credit ... ^^;
- jameshart 13y ago
  The original mac mouse had a very heavy mouseball - it was my first mouse, and I remember switching from it to flimsy, plasticky PC mice when I first encountered them at university felt very strange - they lacked the inertia I was used to.
mistercow 13y ago
I disagree on the point of ergonomics. In terms of convenience, two buttons are nice. But the single-button pro mouse never gave me any wrist pain, which was unusual for the time.
judk 13y ago
Remember that Apple's official brand identity was "hipster", for many years "Think different." Not "Think Better".
- badman_ting 13y ago
  blech

gurkendoktor 13y ago

I absolutely agree that their mice suck, but I think the Magic Trackpad is hard to beat. The keyboards aren't too bad either. The glossy screens are another ergonomics nightmare though. With Apple's short keyboard form factor, I can have the alphabet, the "mouse" (trackpad) and the arrow keys all in comfortable reach. Feels much better than my old setup with a vertical mouse & Microsoft ergonomic keyboard.

oneeyedpigeon 13y ago
I wish Apple would release a full-size wireless keyboard. I can't stand the smaller one with that annoying fn key and tiny cursor keys. Also, I wonder if Apple will ever cotton on to the fact that quite a lot of us use the '#' symbol from time to time. Other than that, I love their keyboards.
- escherba 13y ago
  Typing with this keyboard right now: http://matias.ca/laptoppro/mac/ http://matias.ca/laptoppro/mac/ Much better keyboard than Apple's own wireless thingy.
  - scholia 13y ago
    Looks good but it weighs around 2 pounds! There are lighter laptops ;-)
dzhiurgis 13y ago
Magic Trackpad is amazing. And 'crazy gestures' actually save you so much useless mouse movements once you customise them - close tab, reopen tab, switch between tabs, refresh, previous page, next page.
mistercow 13y ago
Glossy screens are just a matter of preference and your typical environment. There's no denying that as long as you're in a low glare setting, colors look better on a glossy screen. The question is just whether that's the kind of environment you usually work in.
- judk 13y ago
  Who works in a setting with neither light bulbs nor direct sunlight? There is like one spot on my couch at the perfect time of day when my setting is low glare. And watching movies, which I do, on a TV.
  - lostlogin 13y ago
    Radiology department checking in.
  - mistercow 13y ago
    >Who works in a setting with neither light bulbs nor direct sunlight? You can have bulbs all you like. They just need not to be in the cone in front of the screen where they will reflect distractingly. I usually use my computer while sitting on my bed. Bedside lamps don't cause problems, and there are no lights behind me, so it's fine. In fact, I very rarely notice glare on my screen.
calinet6 13y ago
All of the Apple trackpads are pretty incredible. Coming from the PC laptop world, I used to hate trackpads and thought of them as highly inferior devices. I thought the epitome of mobile mousing was the ThinkPad TrackPoint (to keep this discussion PG rated...) and I detested trackpads with a vengeance. Turns out no one had made a good one yet. I got the first unibody MacBook Pro and started to prefer the trackpad over any mouse. That thing is a glorious input device and incredible proof that the fine details really do matter in HCI. The difference between a standard PC trackpad and the Apple Magic Trackpad is slight, but the improvement in the experience is exponential.
mwfunk 13y ago
Agreed, they're my favorite keyboards and the trackpads in general (including the Magic Trackpad, which has weaned me off mice altogether) are fantastic. Mice are definitely one area where it seems like the accusations of going with form over function actually hold some water. I'm not sure why this one particular peripheral (especially one that has been so central to their products) has gotten so little love over the years. For example, I actually loved the Mighty Mouse. However, it only takes one attempt to use the weird squeeze buttons on the sides (one on each side, and they have to be pressed simultaneously for it to do anything) to pretty clearly see that those side buttons were an ergonomic nightmare. The means of triggering a right-click were also pretty insane- you had to make sure that you weren't touching any part of the left side of the mouse when you clicked it. I get the engineering tradeoffs that required it to be implemented in this way, but it was really nonintuitive and wasn't documented anywhere as far as I could tell. Lots of people just did ctrl-click for right clicking instead of using the mouse, it was such a hassle. The only saving grace there is that right clicking isn't nearly as fundamental to most Mac UIs as it is on other platforms. It's surprising how many people use Macs every day and don't even know that there is a right click, even though I can't imagine using OS X without it. I pretty much just ctrl-click these days when not using a trackpad or a third-party mouse.
lostlogin 13y ago
Don't forget the rear USB slots on the iMac. If you have to plug in multiple times a day you go bat shit crazy. And if, heaven forbid, you tilt the screen to change the angle (in tall) the cable must be free. If someone has pushed the desk back as jammed the cable against the wall, tilting the screen pulls the power cable out. Great stuff.

leoc 13y ago

Both ADB mice were pretty pleasant to use, apart from the softness of the ADB II's mouse button. Control-click has worked as a straightforward substitute for right-click on Macs for a long time now. Interstingly it was Microsoft that really introduced "ergonomic" mouse shapes, with the "Dove bar" mouse http://www.ideo.com/work/mouse-for-microsoft/ http://www.ideo.com/work/mouse-for-microsoft/ and then the Microsoft Mouse 2.0.

leoc 13y ago
There's an image of "Carrera", the Microsoft Mouse 2.0 with an interview of (one of?) its designer(s) at http://www.affectivedesign.org/archives/151 http://www.affectivedesign.org/archives/151 .
- leoc 13y ago
  The MoMA collection page http://www.moma.org/collection/object.php?object_id=3436 http://www.moma.org/collection/object.php?object_id=3436 gives Steven T. Kaneko as the designer, actually.

unsignedint 13y ago

I use a 2008 iMac at work, and there is a lot to be said for ergonomics overall... Including placement of optical drive and SD card (they are located on the right side -- and since optical drive is a trayless type, I almost inserted SD card on the optical drive other day, which would have been catastrophic as I don't think it'd be easy to take it out...) and USB port placement (it's all on the back...)

Samuel_Michon 13y ago

Apple branded mice have had right click functionality since 2005 [1]. However, only a minority of OS X users uses a mouse, and an even smaller group uses contextual menus on a regular basis. [1] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apple_Mighty_Mouse http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apple_Mighty_Mouse

oneeyedpigeon 13y ago
Do you have any evidence for those assertions?
- Samuel_Michon 13y ago
  Sure: over 70% of Macs sold are notebooks. The only Macs that come with Apple branded mice are the iMac and Mac Pro. http://venturebeat.com/2009/01/26/notebooks-now-make-up-over-70-percent-of-mac-sales/ http://venturebeat.com/2009/01/26/notebooks-now-make-up-over...
  - oneeyedpigeon 13y ago
    Colour me surprised. Of course, some of those notebook owners will also use a mouse. And I'm speaking as a Mac Mini user with an Apple branded mouse, but I guess your original point probably stands. I wish I didn't have such a reliance on the mouse, but since transitioning from PC to Mac, one of the few persistent problems has been keyboard shortcut support. I can't tell if I've failed to learn sufficiently, or if it's just lacking, but certain applications - e.g. Finder - just seem to be impossible to navigate without a pointing device.
    - kaolinite 13y ago
      Arrow-keys to move around, cmd+o to open and cmd+shift+g to go to a specific directory - what else do you need?
      - oneeyedpigeon 13y ago

RexRollman 13y ago

What's funny is that I actually liked what is considered the worst Apple mouse in history: the hockey puck mouse. For some reason, I just liked it.

mistercow 13y ago
I liked it too, but there were two versions. The first version I think is what gave it a bad rap because it was difficult to find the front of the mouse by feel. The second version had a big divot in the button and solved that issue.

snogglethorpe 13y ago

Though I don't like the one-button design, the original Mac mouse was actually really nice, it just felt really solid and responsive, much better than the Logitech optical mice of the same era (which in my experience tended to be really flimsy and temperamental). I suppose it's sort of been all downhill since then, but Apple deserves some credit ... ^^;

jameshart 13y ago
The original mac mouse had a very heavy mouseball - it was my first mouse, and I remember switching from it to flimsy, plasticky PC mice when I first encountered them at university felt very strange - they lacked the inertia I was used to.

mistercow 13y ago

I disagree on the point of ergonomics. In terms of convenience, two buttons are nice. But the single-button pro mouse never gave me any wrist pain, which was unusual for the time.

judk 13y ago

Remember that Apple's official brand identity was "hipster", for many years "Think different." Not "Think Better".

badman_ting 13y ago
blech