5 ms·

Maybe because cancer is ridiculously more common than both of those disorders combined?

PaulHoule 13y ago
Perhaps cancer in general, but not particularly types of cancer, when you recognize that there are multiple forms of lung cancer, breast cancer, etc. -- common forms of cancer are not a single disease. The trouble with cancer drugs is that you take them for a short time and you either die or you survive. The real money is in drugs that a large segment of the population can take for an indefinite time such as Lipitor, blood pressure meds, asthma inhalers, and the perpetually elusive obesity cure.
thaumasiotes 13y ago
Sure, but obviously curing cancer is a waste of research effort... what they should be trying to cure is disease.
- foobarbazqux 13y ago
  Why is it a waste of research effort? We've made dramatic non-palliative strides in the area of cancer treatment, and most importantly have been able to induce complete remission in a significant number of cases.
  - thaumasiotes 13y ago
    see my sibling comment.
    - foobarbazqux 13y ago
      Sorry, I don't understand. If you meant PaulHoule's comment I'm not sure how that answers my question, and I didn't find any other comments by you. Do you mean because cancer isn't a simple, isolated thing like polio or TB?
      - thaumasiotes 13y ago
        Yes, I meant PaulHoule's comment. If the reason for studying "cancer" is that "cancer" is more widespread than better-defined illnesses, then the reasoning is misplaced; it's surely better to focus on something more widespread, like "illness". I have seen it expressed, though not in these terms, that asking for a "cure for cancer" is equivalent to asking for bug-free software. Cancer isn't something that afflicts you from without; it's just a failure mode for cells. They can fail for all kinds of reasons (indeed, note that one of our best methods of causing cancer, radiation, works on the principle of "make random changes to the cell's genetic code, and it will eventually become cancerous").
        foobarbazqux 13y ago
        So I think the general claim is that focusing on cancer is a middle ground between seeking treatments for obscure well-defined illnesses and searching for a panacea for illness or disease in general. Cancer has a precise operational definition: unregulated cell growth. It isn't nearly as vague as illness or disease. We understand a lot about all the different pathways inside cells that can lead to it. A "cure for cancer" is an attempt to address the issue upstream, such that it will affect all different types of cancer in the body. Unlike seeking a panacea for all illness, this is not obviously a waste of research effort. There are highly similar mechanisms at work in every cancer. Even if a cure-all cannot be found (I would be surprised, personally), just trying to understand the mechanisms still has value.
        thaumasiotes 13y ago
        Actually, a cyst meets your definition of unregulated cell growth. It's just slower / less greedy. The distinction between a benign tumor and a malignant one is generally ascertained by the process of "let's watch it and see what it does", so I'm not convinced that "cancer" is defined more usefully than "illness". In my opinion, and my medically-educated mother's opinion (really, I get it from her), people don't look for "a cure for cancer" because they think they can make progress from that viewpoint. They do it because they're looking for funding. edit: You might compare "died of cancer" to "died of old age". Old age used to be an accepted cause of death. When autopsies started happening, it was quickly noticed that people who had died of "old age" always had some other, more immediate cause of death. But it turns out that if you take an old person and do your utmost to prevent / cure / treat all of those more proximate causes, eventually one will get past you and they will die.

Perhaps cancer in general, but not particularly types of cancer, when you recognize that there are multiple forms of lung cancer, breast cancer, etc. -- common forms of cancer are not a single disease. The trouble with cancer drugs is that you take them for a short time and you either die or you survive. The real money is in drugs that a large segment of the population can take for an indefinite time such as Lipitor, blood pressure meds, asthma inhalers, and the perpetually elusive obesity cure.

thaumasiotes 13y ago

Sure, but obviously curing cancer is a waste of research effort... what they should be trying to cure is disease.

foobarbazqux 13y ago
Why is it a waste of research effort? We've made dramatic non-palliative strides in the area of cancer treatment, and most importantly have been able to induce complete remission in a significant number of cases.
- thaumasiotes 13y ago
  see my sibling comment.
  - foobarbazqux 13y ago
    Sorry, I don't understand. If you meant PaulHoule's comment I'm not sure how that answers my question, and I didn't find any other comments by you. Do you mean because cancer isn't a simple, isolated thing like polio or TB?
    - thaumasiotes 13y ago
      Yes, I meant PaulHoule's comment. If the reason for studying "cancer" is that "cancer" is more widespread than better-defined illnesses, then the reasoning is misplaced; it's surely better to focus on something more widespread, like "illness". I have seen it expressed, though not in these terms, that asking for a "cure for cancer" is equivalent to asking for bug-free software. Cancer isn't something that afflicts you from without; it's just a failure mode for cells. They can fail for all kinds of reasons (indeed, note that one of our best methods of causing cancer, radiation, works on the principle of "make random changes to the cell's genetic code, and it will eventually become cancerous").
      - foobarbazqux 13y ago
        So I think the general claim is that focusing on cancer is a middle ground between seeking treatments for obscure well-defined illnesses and searching for a panacea for illness or disease in general. Cancer has a precise operational definition: unregulated cell growth. It isn't nearly as vague as illness or disease. We understand a lot about all the different pathways inside cells that can lead to it. A "cure for cancer" is an attempt to address the issue upstream, such that it will affect all different types of cancer in the body. Unlike seeking a panacea for all illness, this is not obviously a waste of research effort. There are highly similar mechanisms at work in every cancer. Even if a cure-all cannot be found (I would be surprised, personally), just trying to understand the mechanisms still has value.
        thaumasiotes 13y ago
        Actually, a cyst meets your definition of unregulated cell growth. It's just slower / less greedy. The distinction between a benign tumor and a malignant one is generally ascertained by the process of "let's watch it and see what it does", so I'm not convinced that "cancer" is defined more usefully than "illness". In my opinion, and my medically-educated mother's opinion (really, I get it from her), people don't look for "a cure for cancer" because they think they can make progress from that viewpoint. They do it because they're looking for funding. edit: You might compare "died of cancer" to "died of old age". Old age used to be an accepted cause of death. When autopsies started happening, it was quickly noticed that people who had died of "old age" always had some other, more immediate cause of death. But it turns out that if you take an old person and do your utmost to prevent / cure / treat all of those more proximate causes, eventually one will get past you and they will die.