6 ms·

Anybody remember the USS Yorktown? The one that ran Windows NT 4.0 and had the apocryphal story about blue-screening and having to be towed back to shore? http

by Amadou 13y ago

Anybody remember the USS Yorktown? The one that ran Windows NT 4.0 and had the apocryphal story about blue-screening and having to be towed back to shore? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/USS_Yorktown_%28CG-48%29#Smart_ship_testbed https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/USS_Yorktown_%28CG-48%29#Smart...

hackula1 13y ago
I can see it from my window as I type this over the Charleston Harbor :)
wnevets 13y ago
From your link: In 3 August 1998 issue of Government Computer News, a retraction by DiGiorgio was published. He claims the reporter altered his statements, and insists that he did not claim the Yorktown was towed into Norfolk. GCN stands by its story.[7] Atlantic Fleet officials also denied the towing, reporting that Yorktown was "dead in the water" for just 2 hours and 45 minutes.[6] Captain Richard Rushton, commanding officer of Yorktown at the time of the incident, also denied that the ship had to be towed back to port, stating that the ship returned under its own power.[8] Even though the problem was caused by programming error in the Remote Data Base Manager application and not by problems with the operating system itself, criticism of operating system choice ensued. Ron Redman, deputy technical director of the Fleet Introduction Division of the Aegis Program Executive Office, said there have been numerous software failures associated with NT aboard the Yorktown.
- stcredzero 13y ago
  I've also read that NT 4 servers on AEGIS cruisers once had to be rebooted weekly.
  - astrodust 13y ago
    This was to avoid the bug in NT where the servers, if they hadn't crashed already, would crash for sure at the 49.7 day mark. This bug took down air traffic control computers: http://news.techworld.com/operating-systems/2275/microsoft-server-crash-nearly-causes-800-plane-pile-up/ http://news.techworld.com/operating-systems/2275/microsoft-s...
    - stcredzero 13y ago
      > would crash for sure at the 49.7 day mark. That's not so bad. So long as they have the option to skip this week's reboot, this shouldn't be a problem in combat. (They should've randomized the reboot schedule so that an enemy couldn't exploit it.)
      - chris_wot 13y ago
        Yeah, except if they were attacked 49.7 days after the last reboot.
        recursive 13y ago
        Such a time wouldn't exist.
        derleth 13y ago
        > Such a time wouldn't exist. It seems you could get close to ensuring such a time would exist by creating constant emergencies for the crew to deal with such that rebooting would be hazardous, and waiting for the reboot-or-crash date to launch the major attack.
        stcredzero 13y ago
        What would seal the deal would be if there was some external signal that revealed that the crash happened. This could be as easy to arrange as a confederate onboard with a powerful laser pointer.
  - excitom 13y ago
    Here's a system that runs a business that I put on "cruise control" 10 years ago. It just keeps on running with minimal attention ... Sun Microsystems Inc. SunOS 5.8 Generic February 2000 DST Patches Applied Tue Mar 6 17:16:02 CST 2007 # uname -a SunOS 5.8 Generic_108528-09 sun4u sparc SUNW,Ultra-60 # uptime 3:36pm up 811 day(s), 17 min(s), 3 users, load average: 0.63, 0.79, 0.74
    - blhack 13y ago
      That's really scary, man. What if the system tries to reboot and crashes on the way back up? It's happened to me before. Go reboot that damn thing!
      - ygra 13y ago
        So that it crashes now? ;-)
        eru 13y ago
        That'll crash it when he has the time to look into it, and has backup handy. Not at a random time.
      - excitom 13y ago
        The last time it rebooted was due to a power glitch at the data center. Came back up just fine. Prior to that, uptime was over 1,000 days :-)
        Amadou 13y ago
        You don't understand his point. He's saying, how do you know that the system hasn't acquired some sort of configuration/software/hardware degradation in the meantime that only manifests on boot? If you don't regularly exercise/test a critical function, then you substantially increase your risk that the critical function will fail when you really do need it. Q: What's the worst time to find out your system won't boot? A: Right after it crashed. You are better off with scheduled maintenance periods where you can reboot the server and it isn't critical if it fails. That gives you a chance to correct anything on your terms rather than fire-fighting.
  - azernik 13y ago
    A similar non-OS example - early versions of the Patriot missile had to be rebooted every 8 hours or less because their clocks built up rounding errors over time. http://sydney.edu.au/engineering/it/~alum/patriot_bug.html http://sydney.edu.au/engineering/it/~alum/patriot_bug.html
- Amadou 13y ago
  From Merriam-Webster: apocryphal: of doubtful authenticity
  - wnevets 13y ago
    yeah I missed that

by Amadou 13y ago

hackula1 13y ago

I can see it from my window as I type this over the Charleston Harbor :)

wnevets 13y ago

From your link: In 3 August 1998 issue of Government Computer News, a retraction by DiGiorgio was published. He claims the reporter altered his statements, and insists that he did not claim the Yorktown was towed into Norfolk. GCN stands by its story.[7] Atlantic Fleet officials also denied the towing, reporting that Yorktown was "dead in the water" for just 2 hours and 45 minutes.[6] Captain Richard Rushton, commanding officer of Yorktown at the time of the incident, also denied that the ship had to be towed back to port, stating that the ship returned under its own power.[8] Even though the problem was caused by programming error in the Remote Data Base Manager application and not by problems with the operating system itself, criticism of operating system choice ensued. Ron Redman, deputy technical director of the Fleet Introduction Division of the Aegis Program Executive Office, said there have been numerous software failures associated with NT aboard the Yorktown.

stcredzero 13y ago
I've also read that NT 4 servers on AEGIS cruisers once had to be rebooted weekly.
- astrodust 13y ago
  This was to avoid the bug in NT where the servers, if they hadn't crashed already, would crash for sure at the 49.7 day mark. This bug took down air traffic control computers: http://news.techworld.com/operating-systems/2275/microsoft-server-crash-nearly-causes-800-plane-pile-up/ http://news.techworld.com/operating-systems/2275/microsoft-s...
  - stcredzero 13y ago
    > would crash for sure at the 49.7 day mark. That's not so bad. So long as they have the option to skip this week's reboot, this shouldn't be a problem in combat. (They should've randomized the reboot schedule so that an enemy couldn't exploit it.)
    - chris_wot 13y ago
      Yeah, except if they were attacked 49.7 days after the last reboot.
      - recursive 13y ago
        Such a time wouldn't exist.
        derleth 13y ago
        > Such a time wouldn't exist. It seems you could get close to ensuring such a time would exist by creating constant emergencies for the crew to deal with such that rebooting would be hazardous, and waiting for the reboot-or-crash date to launch the major attack.
        stcredzero 13y ago
        What would seal the deal would be if there was some external signal that revealed that the crash happened. This could be as easy to arrange as a confederate onboard with a powerful laser pointer.
- excitom 13y ago
  Here's a system that runs a business that I put on "cruise control" 10 years ago. It just keeps on running with minimal attention ... Sun Microsystems Inc. SunOS 5.8 Generic February 2000 DST Patches Applied Tue Mar 6 17:16:02 CST 2007 # uname -a SunOS 5.8 Generic_108528-09 sun4u sparc SUNW,Ultra-60 # uptime 3:36pm up 811 day(s), 17 min(s), 3 users, load average: 0.63, 0.79, 0.74
  - blhack 13y ago
    That's really scary, man. What if the system tries to reboot and crashes on the way back up? It's happened to me before. Go reboot that damn thing!
    - ygra 13y ago
      So that it crashes now? ;-)
      - eru 13y ago
        That'll crash it when he has the time to look into it, and has backup handy. Not at a random time.
    - excitom 13y ago
      The last time it rebooted was due to a power glitch at the data center. Came back up just fine. Prior to that, uptime was over 1,000 days :-)
      - Amadou 13y ago
        You don't understand his point. He's saying, how do you know that the system hasn't acquired some sort of configuration/software/hardware degradation in the meantime that only manifests on boot? If you don't regularly exercise/test a critical function, then you substantially increase your risk that the critical function will fail when you really do need it. Q: What's the worst time to find out your system won't boot? A: Right after it crashed. You are better off with scheduled maintenance periods where you can reboot the server and it isn't critical if it fails. That gives you a chance to correct anything on your terms rather than fire-fighting.
- azernik 13y ago
  A similar non-OS example - early versions of the Patriot missile had to be rebooted every 8 hours or less because their clocks built up rounding errors over time. http://sydney.edu.au/engineering/it/~alum/patriot_bug.html http://sydney.edu.au/engineering/it/~alum/patriot_bug.html
Amadou 13y ago
From Merriam-Webster: apocryphal: of doubtful authenticity
- wnevets 13y ago
  yeah I missed that