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> 'Ranking' on Google is very much a pay to play kind of thing these days with their page layout Could you expand on this? Are you referring to how AdWords con

by md224 13y ago

> 'Ranking' on Google is very much a pay to play kind of thing these days with their page layout Could you expand on this? Are you referring to how AdWords content is visually privileged over organic search results?

mkhaytman 13y ago
That, and Google have been introducing more services into the results page (flight shopping comparison, for example). You can see an article by Danny Sullivan from this summer here: http://searchengineland.com/google-results-too-ad-heavy-166226 http://searchengineland.com/google-results-too-ad-heavy-1662... And this is great breakdown of the various types of results Google is providing these days: http://moz.com/blog/mega-serp-a-visual-guide-to-google http://moz.com/blog/mega-serp-a-visual-guide-to-google
650REDHAIR 13y ago
Purely anecdotal here, but when I search Google on my mobile browser I'm only seeing 1 or 2 results per page. I've pretty much given up using it on my phone now.
- mikejarema 13y ago
  Which search engine do you use in its place?
  - 650REDHAIR 13y ago
    I don't. I usually go find my laptop.
ChuckMcM 13y ago
I think Danny Sullivan over at Searchengineland has done a better job of chronicling the changes but to give you a flavor, the size of the ad space before the first organic has grown tremendously, the injection of Google properties (G+, Youtube, etc) has further pushed on search results. When a buying intent is detected the 'shopping' bar activates which only shows shopping results from people who advertise on Google, etc. An interesting experiment is to look at every link on the search results page and try to figure out how many don't generate cash for Google, its getting harder to find more than one, yet when Google was started it only profited from the ad-links. As others have mentioned search has changed. There is no longer a big push for 'finding things on the web' which was the appeal of early search engines, now the bulk of the web use search as their portal to a giant reference library and product catalog. One of the things Google tried to monetize and failed was reference information (Knol) so now more and more they just show you the fact you were looking for, scraped from some web page, right on their page, no need to click away. I think it was a smart move on their part from the shareholder perspective (disclosure I sold all my Google stock at $650 :-(). The second order effects though will be interesting. You see if Google becomes just a catalog, sort of like SkyMall "Magazine" in airplane seats, then it risks losing all of its unique utility. I'm certain that Microsoft can construct an equally compelling catalog as can Yahoo. This will shape the future for them.
- skriticos2 13y ago
  Hm, I'm divided on this. The more shallow population got addicted to the Internet and the search results represent that. I don't think it's a problem of Google search results. It's more a herd mentality. Geeks not excluded (hey look, it's shiny! - what, useful?). On the other hand, Google also provides much more value in search than before. When I travel to a city I can go to Google maps and visualize my destination and find a hotel near by. Navigation is useful, we are perfecting it since thousands of years and Google is really good at it. As for advertising, it has it's place (like when I'm traveling) and somehow Google got good at showing it to me when I need it. It's sad that they are the only player to provide this kind of value from a backup perspective, but I don't see a credible alternative to them. And they do contribute back to the community, so I can't even fault them in that respect. Now maybe there is a point that advertisement is a kind of manipulation and they are brain washing you plus spying on your every move. But if there is one thing I learned it's that nobody cares what you want to say. Algorithms don't frighten me for every day searches (you want to know I search for Ubuntu and Python 3? be my guest!). I also use add-block and intuitively ignore the highlighted search results in (which sometimes confuses me, as the thing I search is in there). I hate ads for stuff I don't care about or even dislike and add-block is good with that. Maybe that's why they are so successful, they computed what to show me when I'm looking for it and keep the crap away otherwise..
  - dhimes 13y ago
    You should watch this Ted Talk: Privacy matters. It might change your mind a little on the data mining bit. http://www.ted.com/talks/alessandro_acquisti_why_privacy_matters.html http://www.ted.com/talks/alessandro_acquisti_why_privacy_mat...
- rprospero 13y ago
  I performed your experiment and it didn't seem to match your conclusions. My search was: jwt web toolkit The search page itself had no Google ads on it. The top link was the homepage for the toolkit project. There were no ad links on the page. The second and third links were for wikipedia, which contained no Google ads. The fourth link did have Google ads on it. The fifth and sixth lengths did not. The seventh link did. I tried again with a different set of search terms: neutron spin echo The top of the page did contain a link to Google Scholar, followed by three links to pay walled articles. I am not aware of any profit agreement between Google and the publishers, but it wouldn't surprise me to learn that it's there. The remaining links were either to pages containing no advertising (Google or otherwise) or to more pay walled articles. Short of Google have a relationship with the publishers, Google again made no money on this search. For the record, I don't have an ad-blocker turned on, so I would see ads if they were there.

by md224 13y ago

mkhaytman 13y ago

That, and Google have been introducing more services into the results page (flight shopping comparison, for example). You can see an article by Danny Sullivan from this summer here: http://searchengineland.com/google-results-too-ad-heavy-166226 http://searchengineland.com/google-results-too-ad-heavy-1662... And this is great breakdown of the various types of results Google is providing these days: http://moz.com/blog/mega-serp-a-visual-guide-to-google http://moz.com/blog/mega-serp-a-visual-guide-to-google

650REDHAIR 13y ago

Purely anecdotal here, but when I search Google on my mobile browser I'm only seeing 1 or 2 results per page. I've pretty much given up using it on my phone now.

mikejarema 13y ago
Which search engine do you use in its place?
- 650REDHAIR 13y ago
  I don't. I usually go find my laptop.

ChuckMcM 13y ago

I think Danny Sullivan over at Searchengineland has done a better job of chronicling the changes but to give you a flavor, the size of the ad space before the first organic has grown tremendously, the injection of Google properties (G+, Youtube, etc) has further pushed on search results. When a buying intent is detected the 'shopping' bar activates which only shows shopping results from people who advertise on Google, etc. An interesting experiment is to look at every link on the search results page and try to figure out how many don't generate cash for Google, its getting harder to find more than one, yet when Google was started it only profited from the ad-links. As others have mentioned search has changed. There is no longer a big push for 'finding things on the web' which was the appeal of early search engines, now the bulk of the web use search as their portal to a giant reference library and product catalog. One of the things Google tried to monetize and failed was reference information (Knol) so now more and more they just show you the fact you were looking for, scraped from some web page, right on their page, no need to click away. I think it was a smart move on their part from the shareholder perspective (disclosure I sold all my Google stock at $650 :-(). The second order effects though will be interesting. You see if Google becomes just a catalog, sort of like SkyMall "Magazine" in airplane seats, then it risks losing all of its unique utility. I'm certain that Microsoft can construct an equally compelling catalog as can Yahoo. This will shape the future for them.

skriticos2 13y ago
Hm, I'm divided on this. The more shallow population got addicted to the Internet and the search results represent that. I don't think it's a problem of Google search results. It's more a herd mentality. Geeks not excluded (hey look, it's shiny! - what, useful?). On the other hand, Google also provides much more value in search than before. When I travel to a city I can go to Google maps and visualize my destination and find a hotel near by. Navigation is useful, we are perfecting it since thousands of years and Google is really good at it. As for advertising, it has it's place (like when I'm traveling) and somehow Google got good at showing it to me when I need it. It's sad that they are the only player to provide this kind of value from a backup perspective, but I don't see a credible alternative to them. And they do contribute back to the community, so I can't even fault them in that respect. Now maybe there is a point that advertisement is a kind of manipulation and they are brain washing you plus spying on your every move. But if there is one thing I learned it's that nobody cares what you want to say. Algorithms don't frighten me for every day searches (you want to know I search for Ubuntu and Python 3? be my guest!). I also use add-block and intuitively ignore the highlighted search results in (which sometimes confuses me, as the thing I search is in there). I hate ads for stuff I don't care about or even dislike and add-block is good with that. Maybe that's why they are so successful, they computed what to show me when I'm looking for it and keep the crap away otherwise..
- dhimes 13y ago
  You should watch this Ted Talk: Privacy matters. It might change your mind a little on the data mining bit. http://www.ted.com/talks/alessandro_acquisti_why_privacy_matters.html http://www.ted.com/talks/alessandro_acquisti_why_privacy_mat...
rprospero 13y ago
I performed your experiment and it didn't seem to match your conclusions. My search was: jwt web toolkit The search page itself had no Google ads on it. The top link was the homepage for the toolkit project. There were no ad links on the page. The second and third links were for wikipedia, which contained no Google ads. The fourth link did have Google ads on it. The fifth and sixth lengths did not. The seventh link did. I tried again with a different set of search terms: neutron spin echo The top of the page did contain a link to Google Scholar, followed by three links to pay walled articles. I am not aware of any profit agreement between Google and the publishers, but it wouldn't surprise me to learn that it's there. The remaining links were either to pages containing no advertising (Google or otherwise) or to more pay walled articles. Short of Google have a relationship with the publishers, Google again made no money on this search. For the record, I don't have an ad-blocker turned on, so I would see ads if they were there.