6 ms·

They outdid themselves

66 points by chanux 17y ago

mcav 17y ago
Sounds like a story Raymond Chen would tell. I don't know how an IE8 installation would somehow mess with boot.ini, but it would be interesting to find out the true cause of such an odd bug.
- andreyf 17y ago
  Someone pointed out that this: http://activerain.com/blogsview/763323/data-execution-prevention-crashes-google-chrome-when-print-just-disable-dep http://activerain.com/blogsview/763323/data-execution-preven... Is the bug they were trying to prevent by editing boot.ini, which apparently went wrong. So this is a bug in the code that's there to try to disable a piece of buggy code by editing boot.ini facepalm
josefresco 17y ago
I'm sure there's no good reason why IE8 messes with this file. I'll take this random bloggers word over the thousands of smart geeks working for Microsoft any day.
- alexandros 17y ago
  I am not sure what you are disagreeing with here. If the result is people's machines not booting, surely something must have gone wrong, and it can't be a bloggers mistake. Unless you think that the thousands of smart geeks are intentionally crippling the machines (it's not a bug, it's a feature!) Remember however,that the worst architectural decisions (coupling windows + IE?) have been taken for business purposes. Legacy and bad management can and does wipe out the benefits of legions of smart programmers.
  - Elepsis 17y ago
    What is the "business reason" for KDE's coupling of KHTML thoroughly into its shell? Why do we assume that such a decision would be made only for business reasons?
    - dan_the_welder 17y ago
      I thought they were going towards embedded with that. Browser as OS, like the Crunchpad. I mean that's why I was looking at it.
- sounddust 17y ago
  From poking around some support forums, it looks like the beta versions of IE8 would not function properly if you had certain non-default options in your boot.ini file. I'm guessing that in the RC, they tried to fix this by rewriting the boot.ini to a default state. Perhaps this process failed due to non-default permissions on that file.
  - smhinsey 17y ago
    You might be on to something here. It wouldn't surprise me if there is a boot flag (PAE is a common troublemaker) that causes some sort of problem for IE's new process isolation feature, which I understand to be a real rabbit hole.
sethg 17y ago
See, that just proves that the browser is an integral part of the operating system.
- arakyd 17y ago
  I guess we'll know that the browser has replaced the operating system when it starts deleting kernel32.dll.
  - zandorg 17y ago
    Netscape was working on a Java browser before their "problems".
  - dan_the_welder 17y ago
    "I'm sorry XP, I'm afraid I can't let you jeopardize the mission"
- by 17y ago
  It is remarkable how quickly they have managed to redesign the entire operating system to remove the integral IE when an anti-trust ruling is about to hit them. http://europa.eu/rapid/pressReleasesAction.do?reference=MEMO/09/272&format=HTML&aged=0&language=EN&guiLanguage=en http://europa.eu/rapid/pressReleasesAction.do?reference=MEMO...
  - mojuba 17y ago
    I don't think they removed anything other than iexplore.exe, which is a very simple shell application any programmer can quickly knock together in Visual Studio in one day. This shell uses COM objects integrated with the OS so tightly that nobody can every remove them. But who cares, it's the fact that users will have a choice of browsers that matters.
TweedHeads 17y ago
Never, ever trust M$. They have no interest whatsoever in doing things right, on purpose or by ignorance. That's imprinted in their dna.
snprbob86 17y ago
This is related to Window's Data Execution Prevention (DEP) security feature. A detailed description can be found here: http://support.microsoft.com/kb/875352 http://support.microsoft.com/kb/875352 IE8 and Google Chrome interact with this feature for process isolation. I've seen reports online of this feature affecting both: http://activerain.com/blogsview/763323/data-execution-prevention-crashes-google-chrome-when-print-just-disable-dep http://activerain.com/blogsview/763323/data-execution-preven... I'm sure Microsoft discovered this problem during the very thorough testing of IE8 and added some code to fix/defend against this problem by editing the boot.ini. Clearly this is an issue which affects a very small number of users, so it is reasonable to expect that the fix can itself break for an even smaller number of users. sigh So in the end, this is more mindless, ignorant Microsoft bashing. It simply isn't justified. There are many things to dislike about them, such as weak leadership and lack of "taste". But certainly not incompetence or malice.
- sofal 17y ago
  sigh So in the end, this is more mindless, ignorant Microsoft bashing. It simply isn't justified. Cut the guy a break. He's letting off some steam about something absolutely ridiculous that has happened to him. Don't always expect people to comment on their unpleasant personal experiences with a detached, unbiased, global, balanced, carefully worded judgment as though they had the full attention of an entire nation.
  - phugoid 17y ago
    Not of an entire nation. Of the whole world! It's one thing to be spiteful in public, but quite another to be spiteful in a medium that publishes immediately to the whole planet.
    - sofal 17y ago
      Let's be realistic here. Just because you can technically view a rant on some blog somewhere from anywhere in the world doesn't mean it's going to be on the minds of millions of people. This whole "publish to the world" idea is a kind of delusion.
latortuga 17y ago
What a spiteful post about a bug. Flagged.
davidw 17y ago
I'm not wild about Mac OS (no focus-follows-mouse, no davidw), but it's a fantastic OS for parents. Mine use it, like it a lot, and have a generally pleasant time using it.
- rbanffy 17y ago
  When my mother decided her Power Macintosh was too slow for her, I decided she would use Linux. I wanted her to have no trouble with viruses, malware and, most of all, I did not want to have to fix her computer and, if I ever had to, I wanted to be able to do it remotely from a remote terminal (I have ssh on my phone). I also wanted to use cheap commodity hardware and grabbed an inexpensive IBM desktop (built like a tank) for her. She is very happy with it and she is enjoying her third major OS upgrade. She never noticed them.
  - Tichy 17y ago
    Yay for Linux for mums! Put my mother on Linux, too, and she is doing fine. Explaining how to do stuff in OS X would have been a nightmare. Start with "actually clicking the 'x' does not close the application". Everybody should have a mum to explain computer apps to, puts things into perspective.

66 points by chanux 17y ago

mcav 17y ago

Sounds like a story Raymond Chen would tell. I don't know how an IE8 installation would somehow mess with boot.ini, but it would be interesting to find out the true cause of such an odd bug.

andreyf 17y ago
Someone pointed out that this: http://activerain.com/blogsview/763323/data-execution-prevention-crashes-google-chrome-when-print-just-disable-dep http://activerain.com/blogsview/763323/data-execution-preven... Is the bug they were trying to prevent by editing boot.ini, which apparently went wrong. So this is a bug in the code that's there to try to disable a piece of buggy code by editing boot.ini facepalm

josefresco 17y ago

I'm sure there's no good reason why IE8 messes with this file. I'll take this random bloggers word over the thousands of smart geeks working for Microsoft any day.

alexandros 17y ago
I am not sure what you are disagreeing with here. If the result is people's machines not booting, surely something must have gone wrong, and it can't be a bloggers mistake. Unless you think that the thousands of smart geeks are intentionally crippling the machines (it's not a bug, it's a feature!) Remember however,that the worst architectural decisions (coupling windows + IE?) have been taken for business purposes. Legacy and bad management can and does wipe out the benefits of legions of smart programmers.
- Elepsis 17y ago
  What is the "business reason" for KDE's coupling of KHTML thoroughly into its shell? Why do we assume that such a decision would be made only for business reasons?
  - dan_the_welder 17y ago
    I thought they were going towards embedded with that. Browser as OS, like the Crunchpad. I mean that's why I was looking at it.
sounddust 17y ago
From poking around some support forums, it looks like the beta versions of IE8 would not function properly if you had certain non-default options in your boot.ini file. I'm guessing that in the RC, they tried to fix this by rewriting the boot.ini to a default state. Perhaps this process failed due to non-default permissions on that file.
- smhinsey 17y ago
  You might be on to something here. It wouldn't surprise me if there is a boot flag (PAE is a common troublemaker) that causes some sort of problem for IE's new process isolation feature, which I understand to be a real rabbit hole.

sethg 17y ago

See, that just proves that the browser is an integral part of the operating system.

arakyd 17y ago
I guess we'll know that the browser has replaced the operating system when it starts deleting kernel32.dll.
- zandorg 17y ago
  Netscape was working on a Java browser before their "problems".
- dan_the_welder 17y ago
  "I'm sorry XP, I'm afraid I can't let you jeopardize the mission"
by 17y ago
It is remarkable how quickly they have managed to redesign the entire operating system to remove the integral IE when an anti-trust ruling is about to hit them. http://europa.eu/rapid/pressReleasesAction.do?reference=MEMO/09/272&format=HTML&aged=0&language=EN&guiLanguage=en http://europa.eu/rapid/pressReleasesAction.do?reference=MEMO...
- mojuba 17y ago
  I don't think they removed anything other than iexplore.exe, which is a very simple shell application any programmer can quickly knock together in Visual Studio in one day. This shell uses COM objects integrated with the OS so tightly that nobody can every remove them. But who cares, it's the fact that users will have a choice of browsers that matters.

TweedHeads 17y ago

Never, ever trust M$. They have no interest whatsoever in doing things right, on purpose or by ignorance. That's imprinted in their dna.

snprbob86 17y ago

This is related to Window's Data Execution Prevention (DEP) security feature. A detailed description can be found here: http://support.microsoft.com/kb/875352 http://support.microsoft.com/kb/875352 IE8 and Google Chrome interact with this feature for process isolation. I've seen reports online of this feature affecting both: http://activerain.com/blogsview/763323/data-execution-prevention-crashes-google-chrome-when-print-just-disable-dep http://activerain.com/blogsview/763323/data-execution-preven... I'm sure Microsoft discovered this problem during the very thorough testing of IE8 and added some code to fix/defend against this problem by editing the boot.ini. Clearly this is an issue which affects a very small number of users, so it is reasonable to expect that the fix can itself break for an even smaller number of users. sigh So in the end, this is more mindless, ignorant Microsoft bashing. It simply isn't justified. There are many things to dislike about them, such as weak leadership and lack of "taste". But certainly not incompetence or malice.

sofal 17y ago
sigh So in the end, this is more mindless, ignorant Microsoft bashing. It simply isn't justified. Cut the guy a break. He's letting off some steam about something absolutely ridiculous that has happened to him. Don't always expect people to comment on their unpleasant personal experiences with a detached, unbiased, global, balanced, carefully worded judgment as though they had the full attention of an entire nation.
- phugoid 17y ago
  Not of an entire nation. Of the whole world! It's one thing to be spiteful in public, but quite another to be spiteful in a medium that publishes immediately to the whole planet.
  - sofal 17y ago
    Let's be realistic here. Just because you can technically view a rant on some blog somewhere from anywhere in the world doesn't mean it's going to be on the minds of millions of people. This whole "publish to the world" idea is a kind of delusion.

latortuga 17y ago

What a spiteful post about a bug. Flagged.

davidw 17y ago

I'm not wild about Mac OS (no focus-follows-mouse, no davidw), but it's a fantastic OS for parents. Mine use it, like it a lot, and have a generally pleasant time using it.

rbanffy 17y ago
When my mother decided her Power Macintosh was too slow for her, I decided she would use Linux. I wanted her to have no trouble with viruses, malware and, most of all, I did not want to have to fix her computer and, if I ever had to, I wanted to be able to do it remotely from a remote terminal (I have ssh on my phone). I also wanted to use cheap commodity hardware and grabbed an inexpensive IBM desktop (built like a tank) for her. She is very happy with it and she is enjoying her third major OS upgrade. She never noticed them.
- Tichy 17y ago
  Yay for Linux for mums! Put my mother on Linux, too, and she is doing fine. Explaining how to do stuff in OS X would have been a nightmare. Start with "actually clicking the 'x' does not close the application". Everybody should have a mum to explain computer apps to, puts things into perspective.