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> the company is struggling to find Okies with the skills to fill even its most basic factory jobs. Such posts require workers to think critically Perhaps thos

> the company is struggling to find Okies with the skills to fill even its most basic factory jobs. Such posts require workers to think critically Perhaps those educated enough to think critically put that skill to work before accepting a factory job making mass produced biscuits. My critical thinking skills lead me to guess that is not the most fulfilling, high paying, or upwardly mobile job even for Oklahoma.

aspensmonster 13y ago
>Such posts require workers to think critically, yet graduates of local schools are often unable to read or do simple maths. This is why the company recently decided to open a new factory in Poland... This was the solution? Seriously? Going through the hassle of opening up a factory on the other side of the planet across language and legal barriers all because the local population in Oklahoma didn't come shrink-wrapped precisely as ordered? Seems to me that a far more simple solution would be to train your work force, rather than externalize that responsibility. If the problems are really so systemic as they are claimed, then demonstrate some civic responsibility and see to it that your community gets its act together.
- westicle 13y ago
  I fail to see how that is a more simple solution. Teaching people how to think is both an educational and cultural challenge which far exceeds the trivial challenge of outsourcing work. People have a wide range of different responsibilities (self, family, local community, humankind etc). I don't see why Polish people are morally any less deserving of jobs than Oklahomans. This company clearly thinks the Polish are more capable of doing the job. Who are we to say otherwise?
  - eru 13y ago
    But don't you see, the Poles sit on the other side of the fence! (Yes, this kind of nationalism bothers me no end.)
- philwelch 13y ago
  The point of public education is that all of us contribute to it (through taxes) for the common good and all of us reap the rewards of an educated workforce and electorate. If public education has failed, then you can't expect a business to make up for that singlehandedly when it's more profitable to get what they need elsewhere.
- adamnemecek 13y ago
  This comment is so naive that it hurts. So the company is supposed to push through an educational reform and wait 10-15 years for their future employees to go through the system before it can hire them?
  - clavalle 13y ago
    Or spend two weeks training them to work on a biscuit making assembly line or babysit machinery that they'll have to be trained on anyway. But I have a feeling this is less about having a basic skillset and more about that few Americans wanted to spend their time doing that kind of work for what they were willing to pay.
pnathan 13y ago
My critical thinking skills suggest that the factory work pays terrible. A common complaint by factory management is that they can't find work, but they pay people on the order of 12/hr for entry labor. Which is about the rate I was paid as an undergrad at a poor state university - the low man on the underpaid totem pole.
ACow_Adonis 13y ago
I am sure that company wants those engaged in its lowest paid repetitive tasks to be critical thinkers. They might sit there, thinking critically, and realise that skill-shortage is economic new-speak for "wage-shortage". Everyone wants a ferrari, no one wants to pay for it. This doesn't mean there is a ferrari-shortage. Similarly, every big business and corporation wants cheap labour, preferably labour that will take the cost of any necessary skills and training on itself, or have it paid for by government. When it cannot get it, the stock standard propaganda cry is "skill shortage", often even when unemployment levels amongst...say...university graduates... remains high. Of course, despite this "shortage" they will not raise wages. They will not pay for training to up-skill people...because its simply spin. Then the workers on the line might think critically and realise that the reason the jobs were outsourced had to do with simple wage levels and the relative supply of cheap unskilled labour in other countries, and nothing to do with education, skills, or training at all. They'd realise that the company was just repeating the usual propoganda, and probably be pretty pissed off. I'm sure that's what companies REALLY want.
- eru 13y ago
  You make it sound like there's something wrong with outsourcing?
  - ACow_Adonis 13y ago
    I'm not saying there's anything inherently wrong with outsourcing (after all, one man's out-sourcing is another man's in-sourcing). What I am saying is wrong is believing in oft-repeated corporate propoganda as somehow being representative of the true statements of what motivates their decisions when said companies and societies actively work against any desire for a highly skilled or critical thinking workforce/population...
  - clavalle 13y ago
    Outsourcing is fine. Outsourcing and saying "It is because you all are so stupid." when that is clearly not the truth is not.
- walshemj 13y ago
clarkm 13y ago
I grew up near the Bama Pie headquarters in Oklahoma, and I think this story is misleading. It omits some important facts in order to push education reform (particularly the core curriculum) and advertise Amanda Ripley's new book. Bama Pie is not a high-end, boutique bakery. It's a low-cost, mass production operation. Their biggest customer? McDonalds. Showcasing their move as an indictment on the US education system seems misguided, as it's primarily a case of cost-cutting outsourcing.

aspensmonster 13y ago

>Such posts require workers to think critically, yet graduates of local schools are often unable to read or do simple maths. This is why the company recently decided to open a new factory in Poland... This was the solution? Seriously? Going through the hassle of opening up a factory on the other side of the planet across language and legal barriers all because the local population in Oklahoma didn't come shrink-wrapped precisely as ordered? Seems to me that a far more simple solution would be to train your work force, rather than externalize that responsibility. If the problems are really so systemic as they are claimed, then demonstrate some civic responsibility and see to it that your community gets its act together.

westicle 13y ago
I fail to see how that is a more simple solution. Teaching people how to think is both an educational and cultural challenge which far exceeds the trivial challenge of outsourcing work. People have a wide range of different responsibilities (self, family, local community, humankind etc). I don't see why Polish people are morally any less deserving of jobs than Oklahomans. This company clearly thinks the Polish are more capable of doing the job. Who are we to say otherwise?
- eru 13y ago
  But don't you see, the Poles sit on the other side of the fence! (Yes, this kind of nationalism bothers me no end.)
philwelch 13y ago
The point of public education is that all of us contribute to it (through taxes) for the common good and all of us reap the rewards of an educated workforce and electorate. If public education has failed, then you can't expect a business to make up for that singlehandedly when it's more profitable to get what they need elsewhere.
adamnemecek 13y ago
This comment is so naive that it hurts. So the company is supposed to push through an educational reform and wait 10-15 years for their future employees to go through the system before it can hire them?
- clavalle 13y ago
  Or spend two weeks training them to work on a biscuit making assembly line or babysit machinery that they'll have to be trained on anyway. But I have a feeling this is less about having a basic skillset and more about that few Americans wanted to spend their time doing that kind of work for what they were willing to pay.

pnathan 13y ago

My critical thinking skills suggest that the factory work pays terrible. A common complaint by factory management is that they can't find work, but they pay people on the order of 12/hr for entry labor. Which is about the rate I was paid as an undergrad at a poor state university - the low man on the underpaid totem pole.

ACow_Adonis 13y ago

I am sure that company wants those engaged in its lowest paid repetitive tasks to be critical thinkers. They might sit there, thinking critically, and realise that skill-shortage is economic new-speak for "wage-shortage". Everyone wants a ferrari, no one wants to pay for it. This doesn't mean there is a ferrari-shortage. Similarly, every big business and corporation wants cheap labour, preferably labour that will take the cost of any necessary skills and training on itself, or have it paid for by government. When it cannot get it, the stock standard propaganda cry is "skill shortage", often even when unemployment levels amongst...say...university graduates... remains high. Of course, despite this "shortage" they will not raise wages. They will not pay for training to up-skill people...because its simply spin. Then the workers on the line might think critically and realise that the reason the jobs were outsourced had to do with simple wage levels and the relative supply of cheap unskilled labour in other countries, and nothing to do with education, skills, or training at all. They'd realise that the company was just repeating the usual propoganda, and probably be pretty pissed off. I'm sure that's what companies REALLY want.

eru 13y ago
You make it sound like there's something wrong with outsourcing?
- ACow_Adonis 13y ago
  I'm not saying there's anything inherently wrong with outsourcing (after all, one man's out-sourcing is another man's in-sourcing). What I am saying is wrong is believing in oft-repeated corporate propoganda as somehow being representative of the true statements of what motivates their decisions when said companies and societies actively work against any desire for a highly skilled or critical thinking workforce/population...
- clavalle 13y ago
  Outsourcing is fine. Outsourcing and saying "It is because you all are so stupid." when that is clearly not the truth is not.
walshemj 13y ago

clarkm 13y ago

I grew up near the Bama Pie headquarters in Oklahoma, and I think this story is misleading. It omits some important facts in order to push education reform (particularly the core curriculum) and advertise Amanda Ripley's new book. Bama Pie is not a high-end, boutique bakery. It's a low-cost, mass production operation. Their biggest customer? McDonalds. Showcasing their move as an indictment on the US education system seems misguided, as it's primarily a case of cost-cutting outsourcing.