6 ms·

So women really just prefer to not work, take care of the kids and the house. And they're totally comfortable with generally being poorer and less powerful. Ya

by harryh 13y ago

So women really just prefer to not work, take care of the kids and the house. And they're totally comfortable with generally being poorer and less powerful. Ya right. Really disappointing to see pg link to this.

redthrowaway 13y ago
>So women really just prefer to not work That's what the quoted study appears to suggest, yes. Disputing those claims requires slightly more effort on your part than "ya right". >Really disappointing to see pg link to this. pg didn't link to it.
- harryh 13y ago
  https://twitter.com/paulg/status/390880998386184192 https://twitter.com/paulg/status/390880998386184192
  - redthrowaway 13y ago
    I stand corrected. Regardless, your original comment added nothing to the discussion.
NoPiece 13y ago
In a 2013 national poll on modern parenthood, the Pew Research Center asked mothers and fathers to identify their "ideal" working arrangement. Fifty percent of mothers said they would prefer to work part-time and 11 percent said they would prefer not to work at all. Fathers answered differently: 75 percent preferred full-time work. And the higher the socio-economic status of women, the more likely they were to reject full-time employment. It might sound crazy, but when you are a little older, married, and have kids, it will make more sense. And for the ~40% of women who want to go back to work - AWESOME. Go hire them. Make it easy to leave and come back. But stop judging and just let women do what they want.
- overgryphon 13y ago
  I really wish people focused more on allowing women to build careers after their children are raised. Stop judging women who do leave work as somehow less mentally capable once they're done.
- dingaling 13y ago
  > Fifty percent of mothers said they would prefer to work part-time The actual quote from the report is: Among women who say they “don’t even have enough to meet basic expenses,” about half (47%) say the ideal situation for them is to work full time. which is very different. 'Ideal situation' based on economic conditions, not a preference. The report summary keeps on referring to economic considerations: http://www.pewsocialtrends.org/2013/03/14/modern-parenthood-roles-of-moms-and-dads-converge-as-they-balance-work-and-family/ http://www.pewsocialtrends.org/2013/03/14/modern-parenthood-...
JPKab 13y ago
As if taking care of the kids ISN'T WORK? This article is about priorities, and we all need to stop being elitist assholes who think work outside the home is more important because it generates currency. My wife is a stay at home mom, and she works her ass off to do the most important job in the world: creating new, productive citizens. What sucks is how she has to deal with social pressures which increasingly make her feel like a loser if she isn't pursuing a career outside of raising our children. Feminism is about giving women and men the same choices. Hell, I wish men could stay home with kids without being viewed as "not real men" in the majority of this country.
- harryh 13y ago
  Women and men don't currently have the same choices. That's the problem. There are huge systematic biases that push women towards less powerful roles in society.
  - JPKab 13y ago
    Agreed regarding the biases pushing women towards less powerful roles. On the other hand, men are pressured socially to always choose certain roles, whether they want power or not. By definition, the majority of men aren't leaders and possess little power. But watch what happens to a guy who becomes a stay at home dad. The snarky comments, the jokes, the behind the back comments.... Don't think for a second women get anything nearly as bad in this decade when they choose to go to work. I think that's where the disconnect between the Feminists and the Reddit-type Men's Rights people are(not talking about the psychos on there). The MRA guys aren't saying men need more paths to power. They just want more choices, while the Feminists want a society that isn't constantly steering women to subservient roles, no matter what choice they make.
    - harryh 13y ago
      One one hand you've got a person who's had their arm chopped off and is squirting blood from a gruesome stump. On the other hand, you've got someone complaining about their hang nail and saying it's just as big of a deal.
Zaephyr 13y ago
The position the article is espousing is more nuanced than your characterization. According to the article, some studies suggest that where women have greater opportunities typically they will pursue interests that are not strictly tied to high power/earnings as they reach certain earning thresholds. This level of earning need is less than that of men on average. It's an interesting article and worth a read, regardless whether one thinks the data is accurate.
- harryh 13y ago
  I bet if you polled the women in Saudi Arabia lots of them would say that they absolutely prefer wearing clothing that reveals nothing but their eyes because to do otherwise would unnecessarily incite men to acts of lust.
  - Zaephyr 13y ago
    With a bombastic non-sequitur counter to my response you obviously take issue with what I said, however, you managed to do so without contributing anything of value to the discussion. Trolling does nothing to advance an issue you claim to care about. As a C-level executive, perhaps you are a better example than you realize of why women are under represented in your ranks.
gred 13y ago
If that was your takeaway, I'm not surprised that you're disappointed... But it wasn't mine. This whole discussion about gender roles gets contentious fast when people feel they're being told that their sense of identity is wrong, their preferences are abnormal, their priorities are upside down, or their life choices were incorrect. People all along the opinion spectrum overgeneralize and end up making others feel this way. Even your comment may easily alienate someone who has actually made the choices you dismiss so easily. When I read a piece like this, what sticks out in my mind is one question: "Hey guys, are you sure A, B and C are what everyone of gender X should be / do / value?"
- harryh 13y ago
  Individuals should be able to do whatever the hell they want. But where there are obvious society wide biases in favor of men we shouldn't blame it on the crazy idea that women are choosing to systematically disempower themselves.
  - mkr-hn 13y ago
    All this concern for women choosing their own path, and so little concern for men being pushed by both men and women to pursue high-stress careers just to be accepted. It's hard for someone who's happy with a less ambitious career to compete with someone who's been trained from birth to never stop seeking more power and wealth no matter the personal cost. It's no surprise most take the more fulfilling role and let guys destroy themselves.

by harryh 13y ago

redthrowaway 13y ago

>So women really just prefer to not work That's what the quoted study appears to suggest, yes. Disputing those claims requires slightly more effort on your part than "ya right". >Really disappointing to see pg link to this. pg didn't link to it.

harryh 13y ago
https://twitter.com/paulg/status/390880998386184192 https://twitter.com/paulg/status/390880998386184192
- redthrowaway 13y ago
  I stand corrected. Regardless, your original comment added nothing to the discussion.

NoPiece 13y ago

In a 2013 national poll on modern parenthood, the Pew Research Center asked mothers and fathers to identify their "ideal" working arrangement. Fifty percent of mothers said they would prefer to work part-time and 11 percent said they would prefer not to work at all. Fathers answered differently: 75 percent preferred full-time work. And the higher the socio-economic status of women, the more likely they were to reject full-time employment. It might sound crazy, but when you are a little older, married, and have kids, it will make more sense. And for the ~40% of women who want to go back to work - AWESOME. Go hire them. Make it easy to leave and come back. But stop judging and just let women do what they want.

overgryphon 13y ago
I really wish people focused more on allowing women to build careers after their children are raised. Stop judging women who do leave work as somehow less mentally capable once they're done.
dingaling 13y ago
> Fifty percent of mothers said they would prefer to work part-time The actual quote from the report is: Among women who say they “don’t even have enough to meet basic expenses,” about half (47%) say the ideal situation for them is to work full time. which is very different. 'Ideal situation' based on economic conditions, not a preference. The report summary keeps on referring to economic considerations: http://www.pewsocialtrends.org/2013/03/14/modern-parenthood-roles-of-moms-and-dads-converge-as-they-balance-work-and-family/ http://www.pewsocialtrends.org/2013/03/14/modern-parenthood-...

JPKab 13y ago

As if taking care of the kids ISN'T WORK? This article is about priorities, and we all need to stop being elitist assholes who think work outside the home is more important because it generates currency. My wife is a stay at home mom, and she works her ass off to do the most important job in the world: creating new, productive citizens. What sucks is how she has to deal with social pressures which increasingly make her feel like a loser if she isn't pursuing a career outside of raising our children. Feminism is about giving women and men the same choices. Hell, I wish men could stay home with kids without being viewed as "not real men" in the majority of this country.

harryh 13y ago
Women and men don't currently have the same choices. That's the problem. There are huge systematic biases that push women towards less powerful roles in society.
- JPKab 13y ago
  Agreed regarding the biases pushing women towards less powerful roles. On the other hand, men are pressured socially to always choose certain roles, whether they want power or not. By definition, the majority of men aren't leaders and possess little power. But watch what happens to a guy who becomes a stay at home dad. The snarky comments, the jokes, the behind the back comments.... Don't think for a second women get anything nearly as bad in this decade when they choose to go to work. I think that's where the disconnect between the Feminists and the Reddit-type Men's Rights people are(not talking about the psychos on there). The MRA guys aren't saying men need more paths to power. They just want more choices, while the Feminists want a society that isn't constantly steering women to subservient roles, no matter what choice they make.
  - harryh 13y ago
    One one hand you've got a person who's had their arm chopped off and is squirting blood from a gruesome stump. On the other hand, you've got someone complaining about their hang nail and saying it's just as big of a deal.

Zaephyr 13y ago

The position the article is espousing is more nuanced than your characterization. According to the article, some studies suggest that where women have greater opportunities typically they will pursue interests that are not strictly tied to high power/earnings as they reach certain earning thresholds. This level of earning need is less than that of men on average. It's an interesting article and worth a read, regardless whether one thinks the data is accurate.

harryh 13y ago
I bet if you polled the women in Saudi Arabia lots of them would say that they absolutely prefer wearing clothing that reveals nothing but their eyes because to do otherwise would unnecessarily incite men to acts of lust.
- Zaephyr 13y ago
  With a bombastic non-sequitur counter to my response you obviously take issue with what I said, however, you managed to do so without contributing anything of value to the discussion. Trolling does nothing to advance an issue you claim to care about. As a C-level executive, perhaps you are a better example than you realize of why women are under represented in your ranks.

gred 13y ago

If that was your takeaway, I'm not surprised that you're disappointed... But it wasn't mine. This whole discussion about gender roles gets contentious fast when people feel they're being told that their sense of identity is wrong, their preferences are abnormal, their priorities are upside down, or their life choices were incorrect. People all along the opinion spectrum overgeneralize and end up making others feel this way. Even your comment may easily alienate someone who has actually made the choices you dismiss so easily. When I read a piece like this, what sticks out in my mind is one question: "Hey guys, are you sure A, B and C are what everyone of gender X should be / do / value?"

harryh 13y ago
Individuals should be able to do whatever the hell they want. But where there are obvious society wide biases in favor of men we shouldn't blame it on the crazy idea that women are choosing to systematically disempower themselves.
- mkr-hn 13y ago
  All this concern for women choosing their own path, and so little concern for men being pushed by both men and women to pursue high-stress careers just to be accepted. It's hard for someone who's happy with a less ambitious career to compete with someone who's been trained from birth to never stop seeking more power and wealth no matter the personal cost. It's no surprise most take the more fulfilling role and let guys destroy themselves.