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wow a librarian at a GS14 level: [name removed] DEPARTMENT OF AGRICULTURE AGRICULTURAL RESEARCH SERVICE LIBRARIAN Maryland Prince George's County BELTSVILLE GS

wow a librarian at a GS14 level: [name removed] DEPARTMENT OF AGRICULTURE AGRICULTURAL RESEARCH SERVICE LIBRARIAN Maryland Prince George's County BELTSVILLE GS 14 119238 I know the GS schedule is based on how long you work as opposed to how well you work, but i didn't think that non-STEM or non-Management roles made above GS11 or 12.

phaus 13y ago
GS isn't based entirely on how long you work. Most positions have a cap. There are also plenty of places that generally don't promote people because the management sucks or they don't have funding. There are also ways to prevent substandard employees from getting promoted. Perhaps the term librarian means something other than what we think it does, like the librarian of congress. Perhaps its a supervisor at an enormous library. I really hope we aren't paying 90k+ for someone to check out books about farming.
- fiatmoney 13y ago
  I would assume they help keep track of / index the massive amount of government-sponsored agricultural research & data the DoA has generated. "[The Agricultural Research Service] has more than 2,200 permanent scientists working on approximately 1,100 research projects at more than 100 locations", to say nothing of historical data. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Agricultural_Research_Service http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Agricultural_Research_Service http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Agricultural_Library http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Agricultural_Library
- Jtsummers 13y ago
  Keep in mind, it's also not uncommon for those in charge of others to have the same title. That is, in an engineering office the one in charge of a group of 1k engineers is likely an engineer as well, so they'd be a GS-14 or GS-15 electrical engineer. So the person who rose through the ranks of librarians from the lowest level to being in charge of a group of librarians would similarly be a GS-13 or GS-14 librarian.
Jtsummers 13y ago
There are two components to GS, grade and step. Step is based on time, grade is based on position. It's also possible that this person came out as a GS-14 rather than a lower GS-12 or GS-13 due to the attempt at merit based pay (NSPS) that was canceled 3 (4?) years back. Their pay may have been improved via merit increases under NSPS and GS-14 might have been the closest equivalent to their pay or they could have been miscoded as a GS-14 equivalent and it wasn't corrected. Most of these were left as-is rather than fighting to "demote" them to avoid the hassle. Especially since most of them would be retiring within 5 years or so, or would have been promoted to that same level in the near future. Rather than demote them they just won't get the promotion just a lateral move. GS grades tend to correspond to scope of work, degree of education required and scope of responsibilities. If the work doesn't require a college degree, don't expect anything above GS-9, and probably no better than GS-7. If it's "business ops" that requires a degree but has limited responsibilities you might be a GS-11, engineers are (after their "apprenticeship" period) between GS-11 and GS-13 (essentially, education + depth of knowledge, most GS-13 engineers will be SMEs, subject matter experts). Supervisors will typically be one grade above those they supervise, maybe on par with SMEs, with a typical minimum grade of GS-11. So a supervisor in charge of 40 engineers might be a GS-13, their boss would be a GS-14 and that persons boss a GS-15.
dnautics 13y ago
"step" is determined by how long you work, GS number is determined by the job description.
rayiner 13y ago
Unless you're talking about a public library catering to homeless people and children, a "librarian" is typically an educated professional, usually with an advanced degree, who has enough subject matter expertise to efficiently help researchers find relevant materials.
- aestra 13y ago
  What an ignorant thing to say. Public libraries do more than cater to homeless people and children. They also employee the advanced degree educated professional librarians you are talking about too.
  - walshemj 13y ago
    But they are correct a librarian is a professional just the same as an engineer
    - aestra 13y ago
      Indeed! Librarians are often very highly educated, the couple I know have masters degrees. If you need something, no matter how obscure, you can ask a librarian, they will know how to get it for you. I was disagreeing that public libraries cater to only the lowly forms of society (homeless and children) and don't require educated librarians. They do more than babysit and they employ such librarians. They also employ, for example, teenagers to stock shelves.
- meepmorp 13y ago
  Catering to homeless people and children? Seriously?
- therobot24 13y ago
  interestingly enough i know a few people with masters in library science - though, they studied how to organize and present information as opposed to holding a subject matter expertise (in this case agriculture)
acdha 13y ago
I think you're making a mistake in assuming librarians aren't comparable to STEM work. That's a reasonable position for someone with a masters degree who's studied a lot of information theory, subject area expertise, and in many cases non-trivial technical skills to help process, remediate, etc. data on a large scale. At a research library – and if, as it appears, this is http://www.nal.usda.gov/ http://www.nal.usda.gov/ it's one of a small number of major national libraries – it's common for librarians to provide expert advice. It's not “Get me [ISBN]” so much as “I'm looking for information on a topic. Can you find good sources?”

phaus 13y ago

GS isn't based entirely on how long you work. Most positions have a cap. There are also plenty of places that generally don't promote people because the management sucks or they don't have funding. There are also ways to prevent substandard employees from getting promoted. Perhaps the term librarian means something other than what we think it does, like the librarian of congress. Perhaps its a supervisor at an enormous library. I really hope we aren't paying 90k+ for someone to check out books about farming.

fiatmoney 13y ago
I would assume they help keep track of / index the massive amount of government-sponsored agricultural research & data the DoA has generated. "[The Agricultural Research Service] has more than 2,200 permanent scientists working on approximately 1,100 research projects at more than 100 locations", to say nothing of historical data. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Agricultural_Research_Service http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Agricultural_Research_Service http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Agricultural_Library http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Agricultural_Library
Jtsummers 13y ago
Keep in mind, it's also not uncommon for those in charge of others to have the same title. That is, in an engineering office the one in charge of a group of 1k engineers is likely an engineer as well, so they'd be a GS-14 or GS-15 electrical engineer. So the person who rose through the ranks of librarians from the lowest level to being in charge of a group of librarians would similarly be a GS-13 or GS-14 librarian.

Jtsummers 13y ago

There are two components to GS, grade and step. Step is based on time, grade is based on position. It's also possible that this person came out as a GS-14 rather than a lower GS-12 or GS-13 due to the attempt at merit based pay (NSPS) that was canceled 3 (4?) years back. Their pay may have been improved via merit increases under NSPS and GS-14 might have been the closest equivalent to their pay or they could have been miscoded as a GS-14 equivalent and it wasn't corrected. Most of these were left as-is rather than fighting to "demote" them to avoid the hassle. Especially since most of them would be retiring within 5 years or so, or would have been promoted to that same level in the near future. Rather than demote them they just won't get the promotion just a lateral move. GS grades tend to correspond to scope of work, degree of education required and scope of responsibilities. If the work doesn't require a college degree, don't expect anything above GS-9, and probably no better than GS-7. If it's "business ops" that requires a degree but has limited responsibilities you might be a GS-11, engineers are (after their "apprenticeship" period) between GS-11 and GS-13 (essentially, education + depth of knowledge, most GS-13 engineers will be SMEs, subject matter experts). Supervisors will typically be one grade above those they supervise, maybe on par with SMEs, with a typical minimum grade of GS-11. So a supervisor in charge of 40 engineers might be a GS-13, their boss would be a GS-14 and that persons boss a GS-15.

dnautics 13y ago

"step" is determined by how long you work, GS number is determined by the job description.

rayiner 13y ago

Unless you're talking about a public library catering to homeless people and children, a "librarian" is typically an educated professional, usually with an advanced degree, who has enough subject matter expertise to efficiently help researchers find relevant materials.

aestra 13y ago
What an ignorant thing to say. Public libraries do more than cater to homeless people and children. They also employee the advanced degree educated professional librarians you are talking about too.
- walshemj 13y ago
  But they are correct a librarian is a professional just the same as an engineer
  - aestra 13y ago
    Indeed! Librarians are often very highly educated, the couple I know have masters degrees. If you need something, no matter how obscure, you can ask a librarian, they will know how to get it for you. I was disagreeing that public libraries cater to only the lowly forms of society (homeless and children) and don't require educated librarians. They do more than babysit and they employ such librarians. They also employ, for example, teenagers to stock shelves.
meepmorp 13y ago
Catering to homeless people and children? Seriously?
therobot24 13y ago
interestingly enough i know a few people with masters in library science - though, they studied how to organize and present information as opposed to holding a subject matter expertise (in this case agriculture)

acdha 13y ago

I think you're making a mistake in assuming librarians aren't comparable to STEM work. That's a reasonable position for someone with a masters degree who's studied a lot of information theory, subject area expertise, and in many cases non-trivial technical skills to help process, remediate, etc. data on a large scale. At a research library – and if, as it appears, this is http://www.nal.usda.gov/ http://www.nal.usda.gov/ it's one of a small number of major national libraries – it's common for librarians to provide expert advice. It's not “Get me [ISBN]” so much as “I'm looking for information on a topic. Can you find good sources?”