7 ms·
The War for Software Talent in Silicon Valley Drives Salaries to Record Highs
- cgh 13y agoI realise this article is from a recruiter and grains of salt etc., but if these salaries are accurate because of limited supply in the SV area, then I really hope this further opens the way to remote working, particularly from other parts of the US and Canada. I suspect there is a largely untapped pool of senior-ish people out there that would be fine to work with remotely. The tools are getting pretty good although I freely admit there is still some ways to go. Granted, face-to-face is still necessary sometimes. I fly down to SF once a quarter to meet with my long-term client. They get a break on salary and I get to work at home so everyone's a winner.
- prostoalex 13y agoYou can actually filter by remote jobs on https://angel.co/jobs https://angel.co/jobs and the number is already significant. Some companies build their culture around team's physical proximity and rapid iteration and communication flow that you get from that, but non-tech startups are usually pretty happy hiring someone to do Rails or iOS or other non-core function for them.
- gavanwoolery 13y agoHe sites $165k average for senior engineers (which seems accurate), but its important to note the higher salaries as well - I have friends at Google who are making over $300k. In terms of the worth of a software engineer, the former company I worked at used to bill $150/hour (roughly equivalent to $300k/year salary) in the mobile space. I think that this is more likely a trend though - I don't see it being that sustainable but who knows.
- dcosson 13y agoI think this upper end is a lot more interesting than the mean. I'd love to see data on what the distribution in the upper percentiles of software engineers and engineering managers looks like, especially compared to traditionally high-paying professions like finance, law, medicine, etc.
- rch 13y agoIf you add in data science or other technical knowledge, then the price stays high for the reasonably foreseeable future. That is, maybe the rate for iOS programming alone goes down quickly, but proper systems engineering that might also require an understanding of futures markets or Reynolds numbers will almost certainly stay expensive.
- bitsweet 13y agoThe trends appear to be the combination of the demand generated by increasing technology in our every day lives and a supply shortage of tech knowledge workers. I personally don't see the demand for tech falling anytime soon and, optimistically, the supply will take several years to train people with the proper skills to adequately fill these roles
- walshemj 13y agowell BMW dealers charge out labour at a very high rate (150 ph hour in central London in 2004) but the actual mechanic doesn't see anything like that in his pay check. For information back in 2000 the internal Day rate for BT in systems engineering was £300 and the rate for top tier integrators at the time was around the £600-900
- eliben 13y agoAren't you conflating base with total comp here? $150/hour consulting is $300K at 2,000 hours / year. But if that's $300K base for your friends, then the total is likely way above $500K (bonuses, stocks...) He did say base $165K on average though, which sounds too high, TBH. Surely total comp average can be above that, but base?
- rch 13y agoThat was for a Sr. engineer (so not unreasonable), and keep in mind he's advertising his ability to place high-end talent.
- humanrebar 13y ago$150k base for a guru-level talent in Austin is very reasonable. I'd expect somewhere around double that to adjust for the cost of living in San Fransisco.
- vonmoltke 13y agoThis concept is something I cannot even fathom. My base salary has never been less than 95% of my total compensation. How common is this?
- fitandfunction 13y agoPretty common. At mid levels (senior manager, director), base is ~50% of total. At senior levels (VP, CxO), base is less than 25%. At the extreme (CEOs of major corps), base is negligible (e.g. Costello's base is $14k out of a total of ~$8.7 mm).
- vonmoltke 13y agoI need to change my calculus then. Thanks.
- roc 13y agoYou could find consultants and firms billing $150/hour in the middle of the country during the post-dotcom years. That's not remotely as surprising as $300k/year salary.
- sjg007 13y agoAny recommendations for how a new to the valley engineer gets on to this salary track? Is it hard won negotiations?
- lawnchair_larry 13y agoStep 1: Don't believe his numbers
- j_baker 13y agoI see the author giving zero evidence to support his claims. Well, apart from anecdotes about how people are getting hired at higher salaries (which is most likely hiring propaganda).
- cbr 13y agoThe author is a recruiter, with all that entails, but it does at least mean they know what salaries people are getting.
- GBKS 13y agoI'm very curious if this will lead to companies opening offices in other parts of the country - after all you might get two engineers for the same price you'd get one in SF.
- humanrebar 13y agoAlong the same lines, it's worth remembering that Bay Area companies aren't just competing with other Bay Area employers, they are also competing with equivalent jobs in areas with lower costs of living. That means that Bay Area compensation packages need to keep ahead of the explosive growth of the cost of living in the Bay Area in order to stay competitive with an equivalent company in Denver or Houston. In particular, I'm curious how much the cost of housing is driving growth in base salaries for Bay Area technologists.
- rayiner 13y agoFor people complaining about engineer salaries: the median "fresh out of B-school" offer in the Bay area seems to be $125k base + $20k signing bonus + substantial bonus target.
- USNetizen 13y agoHence the reason cost of living is through the roof and the valley is becoming known more and more as just an echo chamber. Silicon Valley bends the laws of economic reality, but it won't last forever.
- michaelochurch 13y agoRight, but the $125k software engineers are worth 2-10x if given appropriate work (and 0x if not). The MBAs tend to make that 2-10x capture less likely... ... and, as you noted, drive up the cost of living.
- bicknergseng 13y agoI'd like to point out that they are a recruiting firm that just commented out their call to action at the bottom. This is an advertisement.
- donretag 13y agoTwo things: 1) The article is from March. If they are shilling, they are not doing a good job. 2) The article is the mobile version. The call to action is probably visible on their main site.
- dmix 13y agoIt's not on their full site [1] (as of right now). But either way, there's nothing wrong with "content marketing" as long as the content is sufficient quality and not spammy. Wanting to build a business and making money is not a evil dark pattern. It's one of the few ways to market that adds value, rather than simply promotes. But of course there are those who exploit it evilly. http://www.jobspringpartners.com/blog/posts/2013/3/4/the-war-for-software-talent-in-silicon-valley-drives-salaries-to-record-highs http://www.jobspringpartners.com/blog/posts/2013/3/4/the-war...
- humanrebar 13y agoThe article implies that bidding wars and expectations are driving salary growth, but how about an alternate hypothesis? I'm curious how much the escalating cost of housing is driving Silicon Valley base salary growth. If I were in Silicon Valley making $130k base, I would be very interested to hear about $100k base jobs in lower cost of living areas. In areas like the sun belt, cost of living can be 40-50% lower than in the Bay Area, especially when you compare apples-to-apples for housing (i.e., a 3 bed, 2 bath in both markets). Silicon Valley employers are competing with startups in San Antonio as much as startups in the Bay Area and the rest of the Pacific Northwest.
- deleted 13y ago[deleted]
- deleted 13y ago[deleted]
- rch 13y agoBoulder has been lagging somewhat, but starting to see averages approaching that range (the deleted comment mentioned $120K-ish). I also wish there was a way to measure the quality of pub/cafe conversation, because I feel like that has improved dramatically as of late.
- johnrob 13y agoThat is possible, but it could easily be the reverse. It's a chicken/egg scenario.
- humanrebar 13y agoWhy not a feedback loop? Either way, people and companies in the Bay Area will have a hard time if the state of things gets too out of sync with the standard-of-living expectations of the rest of the U.S.
- johnrob 13y ago
- spoiledtechie 13y agoI am 29 years old. I command a salary just under his 2007 numbers as a senior engineer. Yet, I am not a senior engineer nor do I live in SV. I live in the DC area and I have an expected goal, by the time I am 35, I will either be making 180k or will own a profitable startup. By that time, I will consider my self senior. But I will also have another 30 solid years of development in front of me. Which could in fact drive the price up much higher.
- asc123 13y agoThey are just trying to advertise their site...they are recruiters. not good ones in fact. I've worked with them before. They don't give a sh*t about the people just their wallets.
- altoz 13y agoI's like to point out that this article is from March.
- paultannenbaum 13y agoThese guys are a recruiting firm, so its in their interest to pump up the numbers. Here is a quora thread I used when I was trying to figure out my current market worth: http://www.quora.com/Salary-Comparisons/Silicon-Valley-Salaries-What-are-the-details-of-your-compensation-package http://www.quora.com/Salary-Comparisons/Silicon-Valley-Salar...
- staunch 13y agoI think a part of the surprise is due to a lack of consideration for inflation. According to the BLS $120k in 2003 is ~$152k in 2013.
- mmagin 13y agoI wish people would stop being impressed by "bigger and bigger numbers" over time for anything denominated in money that is undergoing inflation.
- MagicWishMonkey 13y agoYou might have a point if you want to draw attention to the fact that $150k in San Fran is equivalent to $80k in other areas, but bringing up inflation (at a time when inflation is stable and relatively low) makes you sound like a goofball.
- padobson 13y agoWhat this tells me is that if you've reached a six figure salary point, it's time to branch out if you want your income to continue to grow. If you were entry level at $70k, and now you're making $140k as a senior engineer, you're going to have to either do a start-up or add a new, significant skill to your resume if you want to double up again, because you've peaked as "just a developer".
- bcbrown 13y ago> Right now top engineering talent is getting 165k and above. With some C-Level executives and lower-management in the same range it can make things challenging from an internal-equity standpoint. Do companies stick to their guns and lose out on candidates or do they look to adjust their entire structure? It would be interesting if companies become willing to give top engineers a higher compensation than management.
- michaelochurch 13y agoIt would be interesting if companies become willing to give top engineers a higher compensation than management. That irrationality is why there are so many consultants.
- lolwutf 13y agoI can't use this site on principle. A f*cking mobile-centric web design that geometrically scales up the exact same way, for desktop? Arrgghghhhhhh.