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A loophole used by Apple. And Google, and Microsoft, and Adobe, and Facebook, and Oracle, and Pfizer, and Starbucks, and General Electric. But Apple makes the
by sjwright 13y ago
A loophole used by Apple.
And Google, and Microsoft, and Adobe, and Facebook, and Oracle, and Pfizer, and Starbucks, and General Electric.
But Apple makes the headline. Normally this would be headline whoring by the predictable media, except that this is the BBC, and I thought Starbucks was made the whipping boy for tax evasion in the UK.
- Peroni 13y agoApple is categorically the largest employer out of everyone on your list. They employ over 4,000 in Ireland alone and should this particular tax loophole impact that number, it would have a monumentally devastating long-term effect.
- madeofpalk 13y agoNot to mention Apple are the ones who 'pioneered' this 'Double Irish With a Dutch Sandwich' scheme.
- ry0ohki 13y agoNot to nit, but General Electric has at least 4 times as many employees as Apple.
- Peroni 13y agoGlobally that may be true but Apple definitively employ more people in Ireland than GE.
- darrhiggs 13y agoIreland 2,200[1], UK + Ireland 19,000[2] [1] http://www.ge.com/ie/ http://www.ge.com/ie/ [2]http://www.ge.com/uk/company/leadership/bios/Mark_Elborne.html http://www.ge.com/uk/company/leadership/bios/Mark_Elborne.ht...
- riffraff 13y agoI _think_ the difference is google and microsoft are using a different loophole (double irish), which by the way wouldn't be closed by this change. EDIT: to clarify: apple is playing with one subsidiary being resident "nowhere", whereas other companies have subsidiaries being resident in tax havens. The reform will forbid the former, not the latter.
- ra 13y agoSo the headline should be, "Ireland to close Apple's tax loophole, but leave bigger one open"
- IanCal 13y agoThe headline is accurate as it is.
- glomph 13y agoThat isn't usually how headlines work unless there is a stronger connection. 'Police catch one thief but leave all others on the street'
- mcherm 13y agoMore accurately: "Ireland will not close Apple's tax loophole; won't close the other one either.", since the article explains that all Apple needs to do is to declare it's Irish subsidiary to have a tax domicile of Bermuda (or anywhere else without corporate income tax) and Apple's current loophole remains intact.
- raverbashing 13y agoExactly There are ways this can be worked around (quite easily as pointed) Nothing changes in practice
- yapcguy 13y agoThe new Apple slogan should be: "Made in China. Designed in California. Taxed in Bermuda."
- DrJokepu 13y agoThe BBC is known to be often critical of Apple. I don't know if this is a good or a bad thing.
- selectstar 13y agoIf possible, please substantiate that?
- IanCal 13y agoThe BBC are, according to the complaints, biased for and against everyone. I see them as being pretty fair if everyone complains about them.
- gmac 13y agoUnfortunately that's pretty much the BBC's own definition of impartiality — as was articulated by its head of news a few years ago — and it's deeply flawed. It means that issues or actors are given favourable coverage in proportion to their ability to muster or manufacture complaints. In important cases (e.g. around Israel/Palestine), this is not strongly related to the merits of the arguments.
- northernmonkey 13y agoIs that a hunch or is there supporting evidence?
- IanCal 13y agoThis is not the only definition, but it does help. If they get complaints that they are giving the Conservatives too much and too little airtime then it's a good indication that they're dealing with them reasonably. > It means that issues or actors are given favourable coverage in proportion to their ability to muster or manufacture complaints. Only if they use this to alter their output. It's more of a contrast to the other situation where you get lots of complaints on one side and none on the other, which suggests (but doesn't mean) you're treating things badly. If they responded to just the complaints (rather than trying to think about how likely people are to complain/praise each side) then they'd never allow a gay kiss on screen (the responses are phenomenal when something like that happens).
- chipaca 13y agoAIUI the other companies on your list are using a Dutch Sandwich, which is not plugged by this.
- creativityland 13y agoThe trend for anti-Apple posts here on HN frontpage seems to be growing. Yet we see positive news from Google almost everyday. Anyone else?
- icebraining 13y agohttps://www.hnsearch.com/search#request/all&q=google+nsa&sortby=create_ts+desc https://www.hnsearch.com/search#request/all&q=google+nsa&sor...
- frank_boyd 13y agoI don't know about other people, but since Snowden's revelations about the companies that partner with the NSA, all of them are dead to me. And that includes: Google, Apple, Microsoft, Skype, Yahoo, Paltalk, and the rest of them on these slides. They are letting us down and we should treat them the exact same way.
- freehunter 13y agoTrends like this come and go. 20 years ago, we would have seen growing anti-Microsoft posts, and 10 years ago we would be seeing positive news from Apple almost every day. Companies fall in and out of favor, and the trend will always reflect that.
- justincormack 13y agoApple invented the double Irish Dutch sandwich, and were a pioneer in this space. As usual Google and Microsoft just copied the real pioneer!
- rsynnott 13y agoIn the UK, yes, but Starbucks doesn't do much tax avoidance in Ireland; Google, Microsoft and Apple are the big ones here.
- josefresco 13y agoBut Apple makes the headline If this was 1999 it would have been Microsoft. If this was 1960 it would have been GE. Apple get's the headline because it's generating the most profits.
- twistedpair 13y agoApple is in the headline because it got you to read the article. Same reason most media outlets publish articles about Apple, positive or negative.
- James_Duval 13y agoTypically, that would be Amazon, or the big banks. Starbucks is actually a new one on me.
- gillianseed 13y agoWell according to a dutch documentary I recently saw, Apple invented what was nick-named a 'double irish with a dutch sandwich' method of avoiding taxes by funneling profits through several different countries for their different tax laws. Microsoft and Google and a ton of other huge corporations quickly followed suit so certainly they are just as much to blame, but I guess this loop-hole is attributed to Apple as they 'invented' it (but forgot to patent it, what gives!?). As to the 'closing' of this loophole, allow me to chuckle. The insane amount of money these corporations can avoid in taxes due to these loopholes means that they will remain in one form or another. Corporations are controlling governments these days, might aswell accept that the dystopian corporate controlled future of William Gibson is pretty much upon us.
- jmngomes 13y agoAnd closing this/any loophole would also lower Ireland's attractiveness as a European HQ for global companies, which could do more harm than good to Ireland's economy...
- Jare 13y agoIt may hurt in the short term, but it seems to me the value Ireland gains as a country from these companies is rather thin.
- badman_ting 13y agoYeah, I always notice that too and have long been tired of it. But ya know... Apple is roughly the biggest corporation in the world now. It kind of makes sense that they would be the focal point. Except that the "predictable media" as you put it have been doing this since long before Apple was so huge.
- loceng 13y agoLet's see if Apple or others cut back on supply to Ireland of products - because they can make more supplying more to other areas they don't have to support the local economies of..
- zimpenfish 13y agoNot to keep banging the same old drum but Starbucks weren't evading any tax at all - they were paying exactly what they were legally obliged to pay.
- DanBC 13y agoStarbucks were paying what their accountants said they were legally obliged to pay. But we don't know if that's actually what they're legally obliged to pay, because it's weird and borderline and hasn't been tested by courts. Vodafone didn't think they were evading tax, but ended up making a deal with UK tax authorities to avoid court. (http://www.theguardian.com/business/2013/aug/18/vodafone-tax-deal-irish-office http://www.theguardian.com/business/2013/aug/18/vodafone-tax...)