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An Argentinian in Stuttgart: Founding a Startup in Germany
- ellenberg 13y agoHello world! There is more than Berlin in Germany :)
- ckozlowski 13y agoI'm living in Stuttgart as an expat, so reading this brought me the same reaction. "ja, nacht Berlin!" "Yay, Stuttgart!" and all that. But I'm disappointed there isn't more of a tech scene here. Stuttgart does have a lot of great schools, but this is an engineering town, not an IT city. Industry here revolves around Damiler and Porsche. The students are all in mechanical engineering, it seems. I'm thrilled to read something about this area, but I have to say, I'm awfully puzzled at the same time.
- rb2k_ 13y agoThere is IBM and T-Systems nearby (Böblingen/Leinfelden), but that's mostly 'business' IT catering to Daimler/Porsche/Bosch rather than people doing anything exciting :-/
- MrBuddyCasino 13y agoSo very true, I live here as well and noticed the same things. Even the local hackerspace (which is Germany's 2nd biggest) is very hardware oriented, it seems. Mechanical engineering is just very strong here. I'd be very interested in more interesting things to work on, but as it is, its mostly big business IT with lots of Java and XML.
- ckozlowski 13y agoI'd be interested in any further info you have on it. The last time I'd looked up Stuttgart's hackerspaces on hackerspaces.org, the pages looked dead.
- marianoguerra 13y agoI went one day to the stuttgart hackspace (http://shackspace.de/ http://shackspace.de/) and they gave me a nice introduction and tour, it's really big, they do really cool stuff. if you are around you should go and take a look.
- WA 13y agoThanks, I was looking for something like that.
- MrBuddyCasino 13y agoIts definitely big and active, not dead at all. The people are very open and most quite friendly, I can recommend it. Its just more on the hardware side of things, or at least thats the impression I got.
- marianoguerra 13y agomaybe having different strengths than other "startup capitals" is something good, the only thing is that not many of those people with that knowledge take the decision to create a startup of their own. look at the latest trend of startups that have hardware as part of their product and the internet of things movement, that will require different skills and there's a lot of that in stuttgart :)
- egeozcan 13y agoI've been working in a small IT company in Stuttgart for the last five years and I have exactly the same problem. I'm looking forward to the days when we will start to see some exciting IT start-ups near Stuttgart - if they are ever to come =)
- kossmoboleat 13y agoI've found the same here in Hannover. Most bigger companies are either automotive related because of Wolfsburg or related to insurance companies. So most automotive IT jobs require some kind of embedded programming experience. There are a few small web startups but not much for regular "application" developers IMHO.
- mattlutze 13y agoThat has been my reaction living here as well. Being a software engineer is actually a discussion topic when meeting new people, compared to the normal "Oh? ok." With the volume of engineers in this part of Germany I would have imagined the IT/Software scene would have been even somewhat existent. P.S. Cool to find someone else from stgt
- derwildemomo 13y agoHave to disagree here. Every time I found the time to bootstrap an event (like techtalks, user groups) it worked. The demand is high and a lot of folks around here are doing IT. For one, hockeyapp is based in Stuttgart, as are many other companies. Nobody talks about it, that's the issue.
- ioctl 13y agoI live in Stuttgart too, and I know for sure a few people that would love to attend more talks/events but shackspace does not look very active and it's hard to get informed if/when interesting events take place.
- derwildemomo 13y agotrue. a year ago we had this nice hn-meetup, but i didn't follow up (sorry..). why don't we .. meet and discuss this problem? i am really interested in a good solution.
- ckozlowski 13y agoCount me in. =)
- ioctl 13y agoSeems it's time for a HN meetup!
- tinkerdol 13y agoHow about here? http://startup-stuttgart.de/18th-lean-startup-meetup-stuttgart-2013/ http://startup-stuttgart.de/18th-lean-startup-meetup-stuttga...
- derwildemomo 13y agosorry for replying on your comment, hn's flamewar-protection prevents me from replying to the child comment directly. I am not planning nor considering to attend the lean startup bullshit bingo parade event. My impression from other events wasn't the best, I think we should have a seperat meeting in another location. my two cents.
- levosmetalo 13y agoI think that the bureaucracy is what is really killing entrepreneurship in Germany. Right now I'm wrapping my head about opening an UG (small GmbH) company, but when I think about all the regulations and associated costs, I'm not sure it's worth it. That's probably the reason many people do contracting as "selbständige" instead through their own companies. I wish there would be a real equivalent of LLC or Ltd company in Germany.
- WA 13y agoGo to your local citizen center (Bürgeramt), register for a "Gewerbeschein" as "Einzelunternehmer". It costs 35€ and then you're good to go and do business. Takes 10 minutes. You can still go for a UG or GmbH later. It's really not necessary in the beginning, especially if you have hardly any revenue.
- snw 13y ago+1 Getting a GbR (Gesellschaft bürgerlichen Rechts ) setup is also possible at the Bürgeramt and similarly easy. Also: as mentioned in the interview getting a "Steuerberater" once you have some income is a good thing to do. They can advice you in many financial and basic legal things and do most of the paperwork for you so one can concentrate on actual work ;-)
- marianoguerra 13y agothat's the one I got and the process was really simple, the tax part was more complicated (getting the tax number for the company) but not impossible. still you have to know enough german or have a german friend who can help you. in my case we are bootstraped and the cost of a Steuerberater (tax advisor) is kind of high so we are delaying it as much as possible. Still I will need one next month :)
- Xylakant 13y agoThere's no need to go to the Bürgeramt to form a GbR. A GbR is formed by multiple people joining together to pursue a common goal. A GbR is implicitly formed when 2 people agree to participate in a lottery - a written contract is possible and advisable, but not required. A registration is not required at all. I would actually recommend seeing a Steuerberater before you form your company or register anything anywhere. There's a lot of money you can save on that front.
- kephra 13y agoAs posted in comment on site: "the interview is lacking the most important question: What are the legal requirements and steps for a foreigner coming from outside Europe to fund a company in Germany and to become resident." perhaps someone here knows?
- marianoguerra 13y agohi, interviewed here. I can't answer the questions since I have a dual citizenchip: Argentinian/Italian thanks to my grandparent :) from what I've heard there is a new law to attract engineers and similar professionals to work on big companies only with the condition that they have a contract and are paid more than X annually (I don't remember the amount). I don't know of something similar for founders.
- tinkerdol 13y agoThe new law you mention is the new "Bluecard" law: http://bluecard-germany.com/ http://bluecard-germany.com/ Here is a more useful site explaining how foreigners can come and work in Germany: http://www.make-it-in-germany.com/en/ http://www.make-it-in-germany.com/en/ But yeah, I don't see anything about founding a company...
- binarray2000 13y agoMost likely, nothing has changed since I've posted this https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=3224374 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=3224374 The guy who's interviewed there is lucky to have Italian citizenship (EU country; easy to move, live, work, incorporate a venture).
- nephorider 13y agoHaving created (and failed) a company in Germany, it is true that the bureaucracy and paperwork is especially tough and hard to understand. Administrative German is very hard to ingest. Once started rules of work and leading a company are pretty straightforward
- stevoski 13y agoHaving created a business in Australia, Germany, and Spain, I think Germany was quite painless, once I found a local who was well-versed in german bureaucratic ways to assist me. Australia was a piece of cake. Spain, however, is...well...let's put it this way: I've been trying to pay income tax or corporate tax to the Spanish government for two years. In two years, despite my best efforts, they haven't made it happen.
- mjn 13y agoYeah, southern Europe in general is not easy to properly start a business in even for locals. I have some relatives who run a small business in Greece, and they have lots of stories about that. One of several problems in the country. Denmark might be the easiest for foreigners: you can register a sole proprietorship free online, and get a tax code, within an hour. It's only in Danish, but simple enough Danish that Google Chrome's translation can handle ok: http://www.virk.dk/myndigheder/stat/ERST/Registrering_af_enkeltmandsvirksomhed http://www.virk.dk/myndigheder/stat/ERST/Registrering_af_enk... The government also recently translated their entrepreneurs' handbook to English, with background information on laws, incorporation types, employment norms, etc.: http://startvaekst.dk/entrepreneurshipindenmark.dk/tools_and_information/0/4 http://startvaekst.dk/entrepreneurshipindenmark.dk/tools_and.... And Copenhagen, at least, has an office specifically for assisting non-Danes in starting businesses and navigating any regulations: https://subsite.kk.dk/sitecore/content/Subsites/CityOfCopenhagen/SubsiteFrontpage/Business/OpenYourBusinessInCopenhagen.aspx https://subsite.kk.dk/sitecore/content/Subsites/CityOfCopenh.... In general the civil service is surprisingly English-friendly.
- marianoguerra 13y agohi! I'm the interviewed, feel free to ask any question :)
- blumentopf 13y agoOne recommendation regarding taxes: Do it yourself. You're not obliged to enlist the help of a Steuerberater. If you've just got an Einzelunternehmen or GbR, you only have to file a list of earnings and expenses (Einnahmenüberschussrechnung) plus some forms. Also, become a member of the Bund der Steuerzahler (www.steuerzahler.de / www.steuerzahler-baden-wuerttemberg.de). They offer a vast set of brochures and summaries on their website's members area which can help you find your way around the German tax system. It's also possible to call them and ask for help if you have trouble with specific rules (though they're not allowed to provide proper consulting like a Steuerberater). Membership costs just 56 Euro per year. I've been doing my tax declaration myself for years now and the few times I've interacted with Steuerberaters I realized they don't know more about the tax system than myself (sometimes they know less).
- marianoguerra 13y agowill check that alternative, thanks for the tip!
- rb2k_ 13y agoI can confirm this. I did them as a "Freiberufler" and it's really not all that hard.
- lazyant 13y agoGermany is doing something right: http://i.imgur.com/B2YoJug.png http://i.imgur.com/B2YoJug.png (map of unemployment variation)
- marianoguerra 13y agoyes it is, nobody said otherwise. you have to still try to do better if you want to keep it that way ;)
- lazyant 13y agohola Mariano, I wasn't disputing anything, just illustrating that currently Germany is the engine of Europe, a bit OT if you will. Not sure what you mean by your second sentence, I'm not German.
- tinkerdol 13y ago"you have to still try to do better if you want to keep it that way ;)" roughly means: Nothing is ever perfect but we should actively seek continuous improvement, as well as try hard to identify weaknesses in order to correct them. After 3 years here, I am slowly learning. Wie Rewe, jeden tag ein bisschen besser. edit: this is why it is typically un-German to boost, and more typically German to complain -- they are just pointing out what to fix!
- marianoguerra 13y agoI'm not german either :) what I mean with the second sentence is that if you want to keep getting good results you have to have a critical view of the things you can improve and try to improve them. Getting good results in one area shouldn't be an excuse to justify not being good in others. I hope the interview doesn't sound like I'm only complaining about Germany, it's more in the hope that it improves so more companies can be created and maybe the example is followed by other european countries.
- caxap 13y agoYes, the government knows how to lie with statistics. Since the introduction of the so-called "one-euro jobs", the unemployment has gone down only because people who took such jobs were not counted as unemployed anymore, even though their situation has not been improved.
- hreinhardt 13y agoHi, I am Holger from Startup Stuttgart (http://startup-stuttgart.de http://startup-stuttgart.de). Kathleen from our team did the interview. If you are interested to get involved with the tech or startup scene in STG contact us via startup stuttgart or join our LinkedIn group "Neckar Valley Network".