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We are having this very same debate internally now at https://starthq.com https://starthq.com I'm thinking that individual users should be put on a free trial

by olegp 13y ago

We are having this very same debate internally now at https://starthq.com https://starthq.com I'm thinking that individual users should be put on a free trial without the CC being asked up front. However, group plans that will be paid for by IT managers will be CC up front. The reasoning behind this is that by asking for the CC up front from managers, we will 1) make them value the service more 2) retain more of them as customers. What do you think?

toumhi 13y ago
In most cases it doesn't make sense to artificially lower your signup rates like that, except if your onboarding process is very costly. If that's the case then your focus should be on lowering these costs, or focus on better acquisition (you're spending marketing dollars attracting the wrong crowd), and not on shooting yourself in the foot by adding unnecessary friction. Putting a CC up front doesn't make your prospects value the service more, it gives them a higher barrier to cross in terms of trust. You need a well-recognized brand to be able to make it work IMO. Some people are just not comfortable giving their credit card if they don't know you. Also, check the references I quote in the blog post, according to the studies conducted by Totango, requiring a CC upfront results in lower end-to-end conversion rates. Check also http://www.quora.com/Conversion-Optimization/In-what-scenarios-is-it-more-effective-to-require-a-credit-card-up-front-from-users-when-signing-up-for-a-trial-account http://www.quora.com/Conversion-Optimization/In-what-scenari... , there are good answers that elaborate on this.
- olegp 13y ago
  Thanks! Very useful.
- thibaut_barrere 13y ago
  FWIW, I measured the very same 0.6% conversion rate for upfront CC on https://www.wisecashhq.com https://www.wisecashhq.com. I will instead to a test for a week or two, without CC info, but with an in-person onboard when possible (unless overloaded), and most likely share that back on HN.
  - toumhi 13y ago
    Thanks for sharing Thibaut :-) What do you mean by "in-person onboard"? Chat assistance? Welcome call?
    - thibaut_barrere 13y ago
      I currently offer a "one-hour free cash flow coaching session" via ScreenHero or Skype etc. What I do in that hour largely depends on the newcomer: sometimes it will be more on the features themselves (when the user is already cash flow proficient), most of the time I underline the benefits that are not necessarily obvious and require "education" (eg: mastering cash flow translates into ability to reduce your work load, make time to build a saas product, reduce pressure, schedule purchases, take holidays, realize that you could work less - or more etc). I can also finetune depending on the country of the new user, understand their real underlying needs etc. I've also started a newsletter/blog to "educate" people (I don't like that world too much) https://www.wisecashhq.com/blog https://www.wisecashhq.com/blog and it works decently, because some mention the blog during the coaching session. So this is what I do so far :-) I'm working more at "optimizing the funnel" than looking for coverage, because I'm in the learning phase. It turns out that those "coaching sessions" bring a lot of value not only to the new WiseCash user, but as well for me, in terms of customer development, understanding the needs, and figuring out what I will say on my homepage later.
linker3000 13y ago
No - I probably won't get approval for my corporate card to be used for such a purpose (at least not without jumping through several hoops, having your company accounts and credit rating checked* and requiring a zero value invoice etc.) and you're not having my personal one. I've just had this debate elsewhere over an Atlassian 'free trial'. *Edit: And if you're a startup or in an early growth phase with no track record your 'off the peg' credit rating is going to look underwhelming, plus it doesn't matter that there's no risk in a zero value credit transaction as corporate rules dictate all potential suppliers go through the Accounts Dept. approval process - and that's set in stone by our quality processes, which are externally audited for compliance with various certified standards.
- olegp 13y ago
  Thank you for your responses everyone, I think we have a clear consensus: no cards up front.
bitL 13y ago
whenever I see a request to provide credit card details upfront before trying a service, it subconsciously screams to me: "Scam! Stay away!" I would never give you my cc details in order to try your product. In fact this would put you firmly on my blacklist of sites never to visit again (unless you are some big well-known vendor of something I need).

by olegp 13y ago

toumhi 13y ago

In most cases it doesn't make sense to artificially lower your signup rates like that, except if your onboarding process is very costly. If that's the case then your focus should be on lowering these costs, or focus on better acquisition (you're spending marketing dollars attracting the wrong crowd), and not on shooting yourself in the foot by adding unnecessary friction. Putting a CC up front doesn't make your prospects value the service more, it gives them a higher barrier to cross in terms of trust. You need a well-recognized brand to be able to make it work IMO. Some people are just not comfortable giving their credit card if they don't know you. Also, check the references I quote in the blog post, according to the studies conducted by Totango, requiring a CC upfront results in lower end-to-end conversion rates. Check also http://www.quora.com/Conversion-Optimization/In-what-scenarios-is-it-more-effective-to-require-a-credit-card-up-front-from-users-when-signing-up-for-a-trial-account http://www.quora.com/Conversion-Optimization/In-what-scenari... , there are good answers that elaborate on this.

olegp 13y ago
Thanks! Very useful.
thibaut_barrere 13y ago
FWIW, I measured the very same 0.6% conversion rate for upfront CC on https://www.wisecashhq.com https://www.wisecashhq.com. I will instead to a test for a week or two, without CC info, but with an in-person onboard when possible (unless overloaded), and most likely share that back on HN.
- toumhi 13y ago
  Thanks for sharing Thibaut :-) What do you mean by "in-person onboard"? Chat assistance? Welcome call?
  - thibaut_barrere 13y ago
    I currently offer a "one-hour free cash flow coaching session" via ScreenHero or Skype etc. What I do in that hour largely depends on the newcomer: sometimes it will be more on the features themselves (when the user is already cash flow proficient), most of the time I underline the benefits that are not necessarily obvious and require "education" (eg: mastering cash flow translates into ability to reduce your work load, make time to build a saas product, reduce pressure, schedule purchases, take holidays, realize that you could work less - or more etc). I can also finetune depending on the country of the new user, understand their real underlying needs etc. I've also started a newsletter/blog to "educate" people (I don't like that world too much) https://www.wisecashhq.com/blog https://www.wisecashhq.com/blog and it works decently, because some mention the blog during the coaching session. So this is what I do so far :-) I'm working more at "optimizing the funnel" than looking for coverage, because I'm in the learning phase. It turns out that those "coaching sessions" bring a lot of value not only to the new WiseCash user, but as well for me, in terms of customer development, understanding the needs, and figuring out what I will say on my homepage later.

linker3000 13y ago

No - I probably won't get approval for my corporate card to be used for such a purpose (at least not without jumping through several hoops, having your company accounts and credit rating checked* and requiring a zero value invoice etc.) and you're not having my personal one. I've just had this debate elsewhere over an Atlassian 'free trial'. *Edit: And if you're a startup or in an early growth phase with no track record your 'off the peg' credit rating is going to look underwhelming, plus it doesn't matter that there's no risk in a zero value credit transaction as corporate rules dictate all potential suppliers go through the Accounts Dept. approval process - and that's set in stone by our quality processes, which are externally audited for compliance with various certified standards.

olegp 13y ago
Thank you for your responses everyone, I think we have a clear consensus: no cards up front.

bitL 13y ago

whenever I see a request to provide credit card details upfront before trying a service, it subconsciously screams to me: "Scam! Stay away!" I would never give you my cc details in order to try your product. In fact this would put you firmly on my blacklist of sites never to visit again (unless you are some big well-known vendor of something I need).